Focusrite Red 1 or Chandler Germanium?

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fossiltooth
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Re: Focusrite Red 1 or Chandler Germanium?

Post by fossiltooth » Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:32 am

minorleagues wrote:Kind of a weird comparison, but would rather have a Focusrite Red 1 (four channel preamp) or one Chandler Germanium? The other preamps I have are a Sytek MPX-4Aii and a Universal Audio M610. The reason I ask is there is a Focusrite Red 1 for a good price, but I would have to sell my Germanium to get.
Do you like apples or steak?

Use your Sytek like it's the Red of your studio and be done with it. It essentially fills the same sonic role but at a dramatically more attractive price point. If the Sytek isn't filling it's specialized role well enough for you, or if you need more channels to serve the same function, you can think about replacing it or adding to it. Millenia and Earthworks are really good sounding options. I think I like the Earthworks a little more, but it's hard to say. I've never heard them back-to-back.

The last thing I would recommend would be the Focusrite Red, unless you're getting a deal that would be stupid to pass up. I've used it quite a bit and keep scratching my head and asking "What else do you have?". My distaste for it isn't as a passionate and personal as Joel's, but I can see where he's coming from.

So, you also already have something fairly colored and "tubey", and something fairly fast and neutral. The Sytek and the UA are on different ends of the spectrum in many ways (but remember, it's not a two-dimensional spectrum!)

So, check out the stuff that's in-between... the things I would consider Meat and Potatoes. If you refuse to consider any other pres, I'd recommend the Germanium. If you're still looking around, you'd be better served to compare it against devices that serve a similar function.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. There are 4 major foodgroups when it comes to preamps:

Fast n' Clean (Sytek, Millenia, Earthworks etc.,)
API/Lean n' Muscular (API, OSA, Buzz, etc.,)
Neve-a-Like (Neve, Aurora, Vintech, GR, etc.,)
Fat n' Colored (TAB V72, UA 610 Tubetech, etc.,)

You have two food groups covered. I'd recommend pursuing a third foodgroup before going back over the same ground for a slightly different flavor.

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Post by Sean Sullivan » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:53 am

I'm guess the Chandler is considered "Lean n' Muscular" so if I stick with the Germanium, Sytek, and UA, I should look into a Neve clone. Dan Alexander or Vintech are in my budget, Great River is just too pricey per channel.

How about this, the Focusrite Red was $1600, but I think it is sold. I like the Sytek, it does a lot of things well and is a great general purpose preamp. The really like the Germanium on electric guitar, I wish I had two of them for drums. And the UA is my favorite on 95% of the vocals I record, and works well on acoustics from time to time.
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Post by calaverasgrandes » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:28 pm

One thing that Fletcher (or should we call him Fletch?) does do most of the time. Instead of saying something sucks, he says its not exciting, or it sounds boring. Which is an important distinction to make. There is a lot of okay gear out there. Heck even Behringer stuff will pass a signal and not sound too bad at first glance. We pay butt loads for that extra booty and littel tiny sparkle that some gear does. thats why my Mesa amps cost so damn much. they have just a little extra thing happening in the corners of the distortion. Sure a Peavey or Crate gets close. But the corners are all mushy and vague.
I digress...
about AD/DA
I am stumped as well. On the REP forums there was that awesome thread from Dan Lavry, where he calls out Apogee, then Apogee responds in a very lame fashion. Makes me want to not even look at Apogee. So I am thinking, what other 8 channel box that isnt going to hand my wallet back to me in shreds?
The Lavry stuff is pretty pricey. Lynx? Lucid? RME?
??????? wrote: "everything sounds best right before it blows up."

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Post by rwc » Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:55 pm

joel hamilton wrote:There are too many great people selling great gear to give money to people whose entire public image is based on the type of bullshit I have avoided my entire life...
+1

The masochistic passive/aggressive attitude sucks in the studio, retail, and general life.

I couldn't stomach reading the rest of that page.
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Post by hautacam » Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:42 am

calaverasgrandes wrote:On the REP forums there was that awesome thread from Dan Lavry, where he calls out Apogee, then Apogee responds in a very lame fashion. Makes me want to not even look at Apogee.
Interesting, do you have a link to that thread?

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Post by joel hamilton » Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:05 am

hautacam wrote:
calaverasgrandes wrote:On the REP forums there was that awesome thread from Dan Lavry, where he calls out Apogee, then Apogee responds in a very lame fashion. Makes me want to not even look at Apogee.
Interesting, do you have a link to that thread?
I read some of that thread, and it really just annoyed me. It really makes everyone look bad, not just apogee. I like apogee converters, especially for multitrack applications, and I know lavry stuff is good as well. I dont care about a pissing contest between any manufacturer, never mind a pissing contest between salemen.

The real answer to "what mix pre should I get" is "every single one you can afford to get until you feel like you have everything you need to make a record." aside from that it is completely subjective and up to you as an individual to decide. Try as many types mof mic pre as you can, and start to collect the ones you feel "hear things" the way you like to hear them. Nothing else really matters IMHO. I dont care who says what about a piece of gear, or how much it costs, or what color it is or any other parameter besides "sounds good" or "doesntsound good.." to ME.
Finding the cool stuff you find an affinity for is like acquiring friends: you cant speed up the process by asking other people who you should like or not like. It takes time. Enjoy the process, it never ends.

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Post by MAR » Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:29 am

Fuck Fletcher and his elitist opinions!! When I hear a record he worked on that's any good then maybe I'll give what he thinks some weight. Otherwise he's just some gear shiller who think he matters.

As far as the Focusrite Red is concerned, a guy named Pete Townshend likes it and THAT holds a whole hell of a lot more water than Mercenary.

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Post by river » Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:29 am

Finding the cool stuff you find an affinity for is like acquiring friends: you cant speed up the process by asking other people who you should like or not like. It takes time. Enjoy the process, it never ends.
Bravo, Joel.
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Post by calaverasgrandes » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:18 am

In reference to the Apogee/Lavry thread. I think it would have been better if there werent so many third parties getting in their licks on Apogee and Lavry.

But it did bring up a couple interesting points. How can Apogee claim to have jitter rejecting cable? And how can apogee make better sounding jitter? I think the first one was a case of apogee selling snake oil. Though I admit I have a few "wide eye" cables myself (most places seem to carry just hosa and Apogee for spdif).
I think, by the way apogee responded to Dans questions, that maybe they are dealing in euphonic jitter. Everybody that uses a big ben swears its the best thing since sliced bread. I have yet to own one so I cant say for sure. But seriously, if you read it carefully, Apogees guys back pedal furiously when folks start suggesting that maybe they have "pretty jitter". If that works (why wouldnt it) I am all for it.
I do like where (I think it was in the same thread) Dan says word clock distros are pointless. Just use BNC T's and terminate! Thats awesome! I brought this up with a gear rep years ago. I was trying to apply networking/video practices to digital audio. I was told that it just wouldnt work. I HAVE to buy a distro. Now I have some sort of vindication that digital audio IS just like networking and video. Its not black magic. It is only digital words flying down a wire.

But yeah, Mr.Lavry does come off a bit cranky sometimes.
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Post by hautacam » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:59 pm

joel hamilton wrote:
hautacam wrote:
calaverasgrandes wrote:On the REP forums there was that awesome thread from Dan Lavry, where he calls out Apogee, then Apogee responds in a very lame fashion. Makes me want to not even look at Apogee.
Interesting, do you have a link to that thread?
I read some of that thread, and it really just annoyed me. It really makes everyone look bad, not just apogee.
Guess I won't bother looking into that one if it is that much of a mess.

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Post by calaverasgrandes » Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:17 pm

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index. ... 4/22983/0/
if anyone wants to check out the Lavry/Apogee thread.
FWIW I had no idea who Dan was and the utmost respect for apogee before I read it. Now I would say I have much respect for Dan and count Apogee as another company that is market driven instead of trying to make just excellent products. But then I am getting used to becoming disillusioned by gear companies, retailers, artists, directors etc.
I probably will get some apogee gear eventually, but it no longer occupies the top tier in my mind.
For all the Fletcher haters, stop by his forum, its funny in small doses. If nothing else its fun to argue with these guys one on one. (albeit in a public arena, which some folks seem to forget!)
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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:39 pm

lavrys are pricey but they are really really really good, and they're nice people too. you can buy direct from them and the support is awesome. if that's too much $ i'd look into the lynx stuff which is way more affordable...

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Post by calaverasgrandes » Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:19 pm

I dunno I am getting to the point where I am fed up with having good enough stuff. I am deaf as hell compared to some people but even I can tell that a lot of what is sold as great gear is just tolerable. I just want to plunk down a months pay and get a pair of fucking perfect channels. For AD, DA and for pre's. Might not all be from the same place of course! Probably end up spending half a years pay by the time I am finished!
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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:31 pm

well yeah you probably will but it's way better to save up and buy something really good once rather than something ok to get by with for now and then the expensive good thing a year from now after you start to hate the ok thing.

that is one ugly sentence right there.

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Post by Mradyfist » Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:10 pm

calaverasgrandes wrote: http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index. ... 4/22983/0/
if anyone wants to check out the Lavry/Apogee thread.
FWIW I had no idea who Dan was and the utmost respect for apogee before I read it. Now I would say I have much respect for Dan and count Apogee as another company that is market driven instead of trying to make just excellent products.
Thanks for posting the link, that was actually a really interesting discussion on clocking until it devolved completely. I have to agree that overall I got the impression that Lavry was basically right and Apogee was dodging the real questions with crap like "So and so says it sounds great and he has 3 Grammys! Your ears are all that matter, and by that I mean this guy's ears!"

Ironically, I thought the way the thread ended was pretty lame.. it needed to be locked, but why did Fletcher announce he was locking it, and then let more posts through until Lucas gets in a last word about "more jitter, but also more accurate"? Seems pretty lame, coming from a guy who sells a number of Apogee converters, no Lavry converters, and also some very expensive master clocks with vague descriptions about them helping you to "realize your gear's potential"..

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