Drums with dynamics only

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bradb
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Drums with dynamics only

Post by bradb » Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:09 am

Recently I've been frustrated by the ambiance in my apt for recording drums, it seems like no matter what I do, condensers allow the poop to creep in.

So.. this weekend I close mic'ed everything with 57's, 58s, i5s, e602 and started tracking, these relatively heavy diaphragms are not so sensitive to the room ambiance and i'm getting better results.

Anybody getting the same results?

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Post by mjau » Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:15 am

I've used a beyer m69 as a mono overhead so I could minimize bleed from a bass and guitar amp playing at the same time, and it worked out really well. It sat about 5' high, in front of the kit, and pointing down toward the drummer's nuts.

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Post by JohnDavisNYC » Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:18 am

did one song on the new phonograph with just 3 dynamic mics. turned out great!

i liked having the la2a around... thanks for letting us borrow that brad!

lets get a beer soon.

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Post by RodC » Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:18 am

You may want to try the EV 635a for OH (Single or pair)

They dont have the highs a condenser has, but they are not as sensitive.
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Post by A.David.MacKinnon » Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:18 am

I've been using a AKG D19 as a snare overhead (ringo style) in conjunction with close mics and a mid/side set-up in front of the kit. On some songs I might loose the mid side thing and just go with the dynamics. They sound good.

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Post by JustinHedrick » Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:56 am

i remember reading once, probably on here, that the drums on hi and dry by radiohead was recorded using all dynamics (57's i believe). i count that song as one of my favorite kick drums sounds.

i'm assuming they were ran through some neve preamps. but . . . dynamics none the less.
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greatmagnet
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Post by greatmagnet » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:00 am

Yeah dynamics are not the usual choice with their grit and girth, but they are totally under-chosen for some of those tasks where people normally reach for the sparkly sound like overheads AND acoustic guitar and I say fuckin' go for it.

Another good dynamic choice might also be an SM7B. They have a relatively wide frequency response and a relatively loose cardioid pattern...getting somewhat near condenser territory but still not quite as airy.

I also should mention that I recently got a chance to use Neumann KM 184s for the first time. I know, I know...I should know what these sound like already being very "industry-standard" and all...but I just did my first gig in a "fancy, real" studio recently with a great mic locker so it was the first time I had access to those kind of choices. The reason I mention it is that I never realized how tight their pattern is and how wel they work for CLOSE MIC'ing cymbals. No weird phasing when the cymbals rocked and not a lot of bleed from the rest of the kit at all.

So if you MUST use condensers and you have access to something kinda hypercardioid like that, maybe you just could mic your cymbals a bit closer?
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lee
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Post by lee » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:19 am

are you compressing? that'll bring a lot more of the room into the tracks.
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Post by drumsound » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:40 am

I'm all for lots of synamic mics on a record. For years I used Stedman N90s a large diaphragm dynamic for overheads.

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Post by bradb » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:42 am

I'm glad you guys are all getting good results too. I'm micing the hats and ride cymbals near the bells and the crash is not mic'ed, i like that balance. I really like drum heavy mixes, vs cymbal heavy mixes.

I'm thinking about buying another Audix mic, perhaps a D2 or D3... i dunno.

My set up has been (all mic pres are 7th circle)
Snare: i5 > A12
Floor: 421 > N72
Rack: 57 > N72
hats: 58 (very cool) > J99
Ride: 57 > J99
Kick: e602 > A12

I keep thinking of trying to integrate a FOK mic in the mix, but that might be exactly what i'm NOT looking for.. perhaps a hypercardiod dynamic would be well suited.. maybe the D2..

John! I'm glad you guys wrung out that LA2A, I love hearing people's applications for stuff. Aaron said it was cool for drum room sounds with the 4047... I've only been using it on bass and vocals thus far. The bunker looks great too. I'd love to grab a beer, give me a ring!

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Post by bradb » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:51 am

when using condensers I was not compressing, maybe a touch on the FOK with a charter oak... thats about my least offensive condenser.

but yeah, with these dynamics, i'm not compressing at all.... except for in-kick.

and i'm like 2 inches away from every source..


also, i've used the EV 635a, pretty neat mic, not overly sensitive, but still omni, i may have to borrow that again.

oh yeah, john, when i come by the bunker i'd love to hear what you tracked with that 3 dynamic mic set up.

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Post by greatmagnet » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:12 am

Slightly off-topic I gotta say it's really awesome and inspiring to see how having a rack 'o' 7th-circle pres can enhance the choices one makes in mic'ing a kit! I just got started in that world myself this year (only one A12 right now) and your post really gets me all fired up to build some more!
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Post by bradb » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:15 am

yeah, they're really sweet.

I'd recommend my route: 3 A12s, 2 N72s and 3 J99s


the N72 are the ones i use least, but they are good for toms with their dial-able grit.

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greatmagnet
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Post by greatmagnet » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:22 am

bradb wrote:the N72 are the ones i use least, but they are good for toms with their dial-able grit.
Do the N72s have output attenuation to dial that grit against? I ask because the A12 has no control of output-vs-input which kinda bummed me out. As the owner of some other Neve clones I realize how key that dial-a-grit is and it's been on my mind...
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Post by bradb » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:38 am

Yeah the N72s are unique in that its got a pre and post gain type of thing going on. the other pres don't have that.

still, that feature is something i rarely think of and don't use to extremes. again, the N72s i use the least frequently.

the A12 and the J99 have their own thing going on in an outstanding way, the absence of pre and post control are not a detriment.

electric guitars and drums thru the a12s are awesome, anything you need accuracy on the j99s rule.. drums, acoustic guitar, vocals too, really good for vocals.

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