New Toft Audio ATB Series...what's the catch?

[greatmagnet]

Hey All,

Used the search function and didn't come up with anything, so...

I saw one of the the new Toft Audio ATB consoles in the vendor area at TapeOpCon back in June: based on the lineage, the name attached, the implied circuit design/topography and the fancy cosmetics I assumed it was gonna be a "five-figures" kinda console. So, now they're out and as-per Mercenary the 24-channel version is $5,100!

This seems AWFULLY cheap to me...am I wrong? For an allegedly Trident 80 series-correct signal path and EQ, etc.? Just seems like it should be more. I mean, that's less than a 24/8 GHOST.

So someone tell me: where are the corners being cut if at all? Made in China? Cheap electrical components? Mass production? What's the deal? Maybe I'm just being pessimistic but it SEEMS too good to be true.

Or is the 80 series a little less high-art than I think it is? I'm just looking around at all the other "known-name/boutique" stuff a-la API, Neve, Manley, Daking, etc. and seeing MUCH bigger price tags.

[trodden]

there's hella discussion about these over at da gearslutz forums.

some of it interesting, alot of it just a bunch of drama. do a search over there for "toft"

[@?,*???&?]

Simple, the Trident 'Roy Thomas Baker' 8T RTB console is a better console. S20 preamps and an eq section derived from the 80-Series.

Limitation is that it's only an 8-buss, but it does have direct outs on all channels.

[greatmagnet]

Simple, the Trident 'Roy Thomas Baker' 8T RTB console is a better console. S20 preamps and an eq section derived from the 80-Series.

M'kay I'm not sure that's really an ANSWER to the question but I'll follow up on both them thar leads...thanks fellers.

[klangtone]

I just got the ATB-16.

It's the first console I've ever really worked on so I have nothing much to compare it against except for budget mixers. Here's my guess as to the incredible price point.

1. Made in China. That's huge right there.

2. Modular design such that the difference between making a 16, 24, and 32 channel is a cake walk.

3. They probably skimped in certain areas. Some of the pots are a little rough in their travel, for instance. Could just be that they need to be worked in. Also the faders don't all visually line up perfectly even. This is the kind of stuff that "made in China" probably gets you.

4. Calibration? One thing I've noticed is how for some channels, at certain points in the fader travel, the stereo LED levels aren't perfectly the same, eventhough the pan is centered. So there might be a lack of attention to detail in making sure everything is perfectly aligned and calibrated. Again, "made in China" syndrome, perhaps.

5. The direct outs are unbalanced. Which is kind of weird, but maybe saved on component cost.

Beyond that, the console is pretty solid and doesn't really wreak of cheap at all. It has nice wood siding, metal caps to the pots, and features that you don't really get on most Mackie's, etc. So far, I'm happy with how my mixes sound through it and how the EQ is. I'll say that it wasn't quite the magical EQ that the hype made it out to be. But definitely way better than what I've heard on a Mackie.

Roy

[Red Rockets Glare]

I've had an ATB 16 for about a year and a half and have had many problems with it. I'd find a vintage Trident and have it restored if I were you.

[greatmagnet]

I've had an ATB 16 for about a year and a half and have had many problems with it. I'd find a vintage Trident and have it restored if I were you.

I'd love it if you could expand on that...either openly or PM me if you'd rather keep it on the lowdown.

Here's the GearSlutz thread link (I assume it's the same one) that was mentioned earlier if anyone's interested...
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much- ... today.html

[chris harris]

I've had an ATB 16 for about a year and a half and have had many problems with it. I'd find a vintage Trident and have it restored if I were you.

I'd love it if you could expand on that...either openly or PM me if you'd rather keep it on the lowdown.

Here's the GearSlutz thread link (I assume it's the same one) that was mentioned earlier if anyone's interested...
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much- ... today.html

There are waaay more threads than just that one... especailly at gearslutz.
I saw 39 threads here on the tapeOp message board just from searching for "toft atb"...

there's easily enough information to keep you reading for weeks.

I haven't used or even seen an ATB in person. I was really, really excited when they were first announced. But, now, I'm not so sure it's what is best for me. I'd rather have something used and proven. But, getting an old board would just mean a lot of maintenance headaches that I can't really handle right now. I will probably be getting a Ghost. They've been around for a long time. They have been proven to work. And, they have a few features that are important to me that seem to be missing from the Toft (comprehensive FB section with 2 separate mixes and dedicated line input controls being among them)...

I kind of look at the Ghost or ATB as being stepping stones to the Neotek that I'll eventually have... and the Neotek is the stepping stone to the API/Neve/Daking that I'll have even further down the road. I'll have each board because I will have earned each board. And, in the mean time, I'll make the best recordings I can on the board that I have to work with.

[@?,*???&?]

The RTB is made in Britain by the English. They English have been making great (Trident, Neve, SSL) consoles for years. Quality control should be 'Spitfire tight' so-to-speak.

Never did like that Hawker Hurricane...

[greatmagnet]

Hmm. Wow. Yeah.

[trodden]

I've had an ATB 16 for about a year and a half and have had many problems with it. I'd find a vintage Trident and have it restored if I were you.

I'd love it if you could expand on that...either openly or PM me if you'd rather keep it on the lowdown.

Here's the GearSlutz thread link (I assume it's the same one) that was mentioned earlier if anyone's interested...
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much- ... today.html

There are waaay more threads than just that one... especailly at gearslutz.
I saw 39 threads here on the tapeOp message board just from searching for "toft atb"...

there's easily enough information to keep you reading for weeks.

I haven't used or even seen an ATB in person. I was really, really excited when they were first announced. But, now, I'm not so sure it's what is best for me. I'd rather have something used and proven. But, getting an old board would just mean a lot of maintenance headaches that I can't really handle right now. I will probably be getting a Ghost. They've been around for a long time. They have been proven to work. And, they have a few features that are important to me that seem to be missing from the Toft (comprehensive FB section with 2 separate mixes and dedicated line input controls being among them)...

I kind of look at the Ghost or ATB as being stepping stones to the Neotek that I'll eventually have... and the Neotek is the stepping stone to the API/Neve/Daking that I'll have even further down the road. I'll have each board because I will have earned each board. And, in the mean time, I'll make the best recordings I can on the board that I have to work with.

That kinda my situation or how i see my situation working out. I was stoked on the atb at first, saw one at aes, really pretty...however, i don?t know if it would be much different from the soundtracs topaz I already have and love. Granted I got three dead channels and one side of my studio outs on the soundtracs is out... making routing stereo headphone mixes that i can route the talk-back to kinda tricky.. But being 32 channels and a great EQ, I?ll probably be on it for awhile and while getting a atb, it would be new, and pretty, but I?m guessing very similiar, but 5 times more than what i paid for the soundtracs.

[greatmagnet]

Just looking at the witless degradation of that GearSlutz thread just makes me feel all that much warmer and fuzzier about asking my questions over here where people offer balanced and rational opinions like the ones above. Granted their ratio of "power players" and "tech gurus" may be much higher over there compared to artsy-fartsy old TapeOp, but still...

[b3groover]

You might want to read this entire thread: http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... 55&start=0

[weatherbox]

The RTB is made in Britain by the English. They English have been making great (Trident, Neve, SSL) consoles for years. Quality control should be 'Spitfire tight' so-to-speak.

Never did like that Hawker Hurricane...

I had an S20 in on loan once. Though it sounded nice it began falling apart after two days of use. I'd say more E-Type than Spitfire. That said, all these ATB issues are a little alarming as well. Guess it'll be a Ghost.

[@?,*???&?]

The RTB is made in Britain by the English. They English have been making great (Trident, Neve, SSL) consoles for years. Quality control should be 'Spitfire tight' so-to-speak.

Never did like that Hawker Hurricane...

I had an S20 in on loan once. Though it sounded nice it began falling apart after two days of use. I'd say more E-Type than Spitfire. That said, all these ATB issues are a little alarming as well. Guess it'll be a Ghost.

The A-range units we had at Master Control sounded amazing. The military pots did get scratchy, but were cool. The S20 I have is incredibly rock solid. I highly recommend these pres. Open, clear and transparent. Really good detail with some character.