Anybody using Tape Echo/Delay?

[E-money]

Obviously some of you are.

I'm curious what kind of setups people are using to achieve this. What are the ins and outs of what's needed to do this? Any recommended (cheap) decks that can be used? Anybody doing this with a cassette deck? Anybody doing this with something they built DIY? Any good websites? Anybody have some examples I can listen to where they used it on a track?

[A.David.MacKinnon]

Yes, yes and yes.

I use tape delay all the time. I use my Otari MX5050 for the clean stuff, my Tascam 3 head cassette for the really dirty stuff and an old beat-up Teac reel to reel for extras.
Any 3 head tape macine will work. Just monitor from the repro head while recording. If the machine has veri-speed you can adjust the delay time.

I"m also a big, big fan of the Massy tape delay plug in. It's as good as the real deal and you can tweek it in ways that are impossible in the real world.

For live and guitar work I have an old Univox tape delay I've been fighting with for a few month now. It's cool when it works but that's rare.
My Danelectro Reel Echo is more reliable. It's a pretty good Ehoplex knock off. It doesn't do the pitch bend thing whan you change speeds but it's pretty convincing otherwise.

[jpmorris]

I normally use a WEM Copicat, which I've come to use almost without fail on vocals. Mine has been modified to have a RUN/STOP switch, probably to save wear on the tape loop, but you can also get some nice effects by setting it into feedback and hitting STOP - so far I've ended two songs that way.

I have also used a Tascam 32 (which takes a bit of thought to set up), and a Revox B77 - the Revox has the ability to do this out-of-the-box by setting the routing correctly on the front, which the manual explains how to do.

This method does work by track bouncing, so it doesn't work on a stereo signal, although if you play the tape back afterwards you do get a cool ping-pong effect. I can't remember if you can monitor the pingpong directly via the lineout while recording, though.
You can of course simply wire it up as I did with the Tascam, which will provide the full two channels of echo.

[Marc Alan Goodman]

I'm not EXACTLY sure what you're asking, so I'll answer it both ways.

As far as tape delay units the time here at G gets pretty evenly across a Korg Stage Echo, Hiwatt Custom Tape Echo, and Echoplex III, depending on the source.

But if you're talking about just using a tape machine for slap we'll sometimes use our otari 1/4" 2 track for it and it's always awesome, especially at the slower speeds.

-marc alan goodman

[linus]

I use a Roland Tape Echo. I generally just hear how it sounds in the mix but if the timing seems off then I route snare through it and use that signal to set the delay time.

Sometimes I want the repeats to line up. Sometimes I want the delay times to stutter. It just depends.

You seemed to be asking about using reel to reels and cassette decks specificly and no I haven't been doing that although I should give it a try sometime. I have a Tascam 38 which could work and a 3 head cassette deck too.

Somehow the Roland just seems to make more sense to me. Now I have a Binson Echorec back from the shop to get in the mix too.

[jchristopherhughes]

i use a fulltone tte, a echoplex, a roland space echo and often alot of other "guitar-oriented" effects while mixing.

i interface them with REAMP boxes....converting the line level i am sending out of my DAW interface to an INSTRUMENT level which is what most of these efx want to see. i then often run the output of the efx units back to a DI and into a preamp and back to my DAW. I find that using a REAMP or other similar impedance-matching device...gives me the best and truest signal path.

but....

sometimes i just plug em straight in and out of my DAW...levels are usually wrong..but if it sounds right...cool. just don't plug a SPEAKER out put (as one of my clients just did) into your DIGI 002.

that is bad.

best,

jchristopherhughes

[jpmorris]

Somehow the Roland just seems to make more sense to me. Now I have a Binson Echorec back from the shop to get in the mix too.

Oh, I really wanted one of those (the Binson). $800 was a bit too much, though.

As for the Tascam 38, something which would be cool if you can manage it would be getting it to bounce across all 8 tracks with each one set to a different pan position. Shame my multitracks are all 2-head or I'd try it myself.

[JGriffin]

I use the Roland Tape Echo, but have also used cassette tape machines to good effect.

[lefuquaire]

roland re-501 space echo.. i use an auxiliary send into the unit, and if i can afford it, a channel for return, otherwise i use a monitor channel.. it's different every time...

[joel hamilton]

Like Marc said above... I will usually have at least one tape echo going on a mix, almost always. I used to use a tascam 122 MkIII a LOT for tape echo, because it had vari speed, it made it actually really cool, instead of just taking whatever I got coming back off a fixed 3 head cassette deck. I also figured out that if I put a nice clean delay, like a roland SDE3000 on one side of a sereo send to a cassette eck used as a slap, I could get insanely WIDE sounds from a "forced stereo" tape slap. I also have put an SPX 90 on pitch change C in front of a cassette deck just for vibe going to tape as a slap also. Hitting the cassette insanely hard to minimize noise and maximize the "tapeyness" of it helps as well. My favorite tape echo right now, and for a few years has been the hiwatt custom tape echo. by far.

[E-money]

I'm intrigued by the idea of doing a lo-fi slap with a cassette.
It sounds like it needs to be a 3 head model.
Will it need to have seperate outputs for the repro head, or do they have a switch that allows to monitor of of either the playback or the repro head?
Anybody know model numbers that are good for this application?

[linus]

Somehow the Roland just seems to make more sense to me. Now I have a Binson Echorec back from the shop to get in the mix too.

Oh, I really wanted one of those (the Binson). $800 was a bit too much, though.

As for the Tascam 38, something which would be cool if you can manage it would be getting it to bounce across all 8 tracks with each one set to a different pan position. Shame my multitracks are all 2-head or I'd try it myself.

If you can find a Binson in great working condition (very rare, usually they are barely working or not working. Kinda like Optigans...) for $800 it would be a steal. I spent more than that just getting my refurbished...

[joel hamilton]

I'm intrigued by the idea of doing a lo-fi slap with a cassette.
It sounds like it needs to be a 3 head model.
Will it need to have seperate outputs for the repro head, or do they have a switch that allows to monitor of of either the playback or the repro head?
Anybody know model numbers that are good for this application?

Yes, the Tascam 122mkIII. Because it has vari speed, also.

It is actually more HIFI than a tape echo box,unless you are PLOWING into the cassette, level wise. The 122 MkIII is probably about 12 dollars on ebay these days, unless studios in india bought them all.

[jpmorris]

If you can find a Binson in great working condition (very rare, usually they are barely working or not working. Kinda like Optigans...) for $800 it would be a steal. I spent more than that just getting my refurbished...

This was a few years ago. The price seems to have risen very sharply since. I see a reconditioned one on ebay for what would be just over $2000.
I actually attempted to build my own using cassette heads and a CD transport, but sadly lacked the engineering expertise. I gave up and got the Copicat instead, for about $100 - though obviously, for that kind of money it's seen better days. It works well on vocals, though - for keyboards I usually just use a digital delay.

[Ultrastudio]

The Roland Space Echo RE-201 is what I use on the outboard side but mine is very cranky and is almost always partially crippled. In fact, it's in the shop again as I write this. I like the Space Echo because I can use it with an instrument and amp, or as a mix delay.

Logic has a helpful I/O plugin that makes it easy to route outboard FX through your interface and DAW so you can send from a DAW fader and return through an aux fader in your DAW. As long as you use the same ins and outs, it's easily recalled.

On the plug-in side, the Tape Echo delay plug-in that comes with Logic is great. It sounds authentic and has some useful features such as the ability to sonically degrade the repeats over time.

If you have an IR reverb, there are some Space Echo IR's out there. I guess timing would be somewhat limited compared to an actual unit but it would probably sound pretty close.

One final note - the Electro Harmonix Memory Man sounds pretty tapey to me. I think they're around $200. Great control and the ability to generate evil analog delay sounding feedback.