Computer recording rig - starting from scratch

Rolsen · Post by **Rolsen** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:41 am

I'm getting really interested in graduating from my trusty Korg D1200 digital recorder to computer-based recording. I've been reading a ton of posts to get an introductory 'feel' to some of the gear/software folks are using and having problems/success with - I don't have enough context to appreciate the value of the information within these posts! I'm hoping for relative simplicity, high quality, stable and reliable. From the years exploiting my Korg, I'm used to working with limitations on effects, etc. I record myself and my band in a bedroom.

If you were me, starting off from scratch, what would you buy and why? I'm thinking along the lines of Mac vs PC, AD/DA converter (seems like everyone like MOTU 828), software. Simple and tidy are probably more important to me that 'skies-the-limit' capabilities, for now anyways! BTW, I'm planning on buying a separate computer to be used exclusively for this purpose.

getreel · Post by **getreel** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:52 am

Well, PC is good because of all the free plugs etc, but generally I would think Macs are more stable. I run 2 PCs and 1 Mac for different audio tasks and I think the Mac is a more efficient system as far as the OS use of system resources etc. That being said, I think Windows DAW software is generally pretty good too. and the cost of the hardware is cheaper. I'm not telling you what I'd do, but just pointing out the reasons why they are different...or not.

Ultrastudio · Post by **Ultrastudio** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:40 am

Definitely Apple. The vast amount of free stuff for the PC is its strength as well as its weakness; many people spend hours of downtime searching for conflicts, etc. You can find examples all over these boards. The Mac is a much better machine for people who want to work on music without becoming computer experts, IMO. BTW, I've owned both.

The MOTU stuff is good. It's feature-packed, easy to use and affordable. I have a 24io and a 2408. If you want to go one better, I recommend the Metric Halo 2408. It's noticeably better sounding than the MOTU gear I have. The clock is better, too. In fact, when I clock my MOTU gear to the 2408 I can hear the difference. I wouldn't call it dramatic, but I can definitely hear it. Plus, Metric Halo is great. They're still a smaller company and they do an excellent job of supporting their products.

Recently I helped a friend set up his Apogee Ensemble. While, I didn't get to record through it, I thought it was pretty cool and the integration with LogicPro was seamless. Playback sounded good, too.

Lastly, for DAW software I would say LogicPro. I have version 7.2.3. The shipping version is 8 and it's now called Logic Studio. Anyway, the learning curve on v7 was steep but it's easily the best recording software I've ever used, compared to ProTools and DigitalPerformer. The plug-ins and instruments alone are worth the price. I hear that Apple's made the new version easier to use, although I have yet to check it out for myself. Good luck.

Rolsen · Post by **Rolsen** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:31 am

Thanks for the responses! I think I would like the Mac route, though it seems that Mac's are twice the price of a strong-performance PC. As for plug-ins and compatibility issues (this may sound very naive of me) I'm fine with working with a known entity, limited to the features of the primary software (sonar, etc). I'm definitely below-par when it comes to computer glitch diagnosis and the like. I use software at work, but am an 'end user.' I'm 32 but listen to CDs exclusively - I own no ipod and don't even have my own email account outside of work! The thought of assorting potentially incompatible plugins, updates, etc absolutely frightens me. that's one thing I don't have to worry about with my little Korg d1200....

I saw a pattern of love for Sonar on another thread - how about PC, Sonar and a halfway decent ad/da interface? That's not going down the wrong path is it?

GooberNumber9 · Post by **GooberNumber9** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:54 am

There's so much personal preference involved here that it will be hard to get a consensus and any recommendation may not be right for you.

That being said, if *I* were doing this again I would do what I already did, which is get an iMac and Pro Tools with a 003 console. Yes, that's about $5000, so it's not the cheap solution, but it is VERY powerful, pretty easy to set up, and comes with great plug-ins and everything you need to mix.

The problem for you is that if you try to go that route now you'll have a problem that the new Macs can't run the latest version of Pro Tools until they update Pro Tools again.

In terms of sorting out incompatible plug-ins and dealing with the general complications of computer-based recording, I think going for a PC and Sonar is headed in the wrong direction. That will be more complicated to set up than a Mac with Logic or Digital Performer. If you're rich, you should go for a Mac Pro, if you're really poor, you might try to squeeze into a Mac Mini, but you don't really save much money on those if you buy a nice monitor. The iMac comes with an amazing monitor built-in.

Since Pro Tools isn't a good option right now, I think you will have the easiest time getting up and running with an iMac, and then either a MOTU interface and Digital Performer, or an Apogee Interface and Logic. Or you could get a MOTU interface and Logic. That way you have the fewest vendors invovled, since Apple makes both the iMac and Logic, and MOTU makes both the interface and Digital Performer.

Having been a die-hard PC user for pretty much my whole life (Dad got us the old PCjr back in like '87), and a Microsoft-Certified IT consultant for the last ten years, I have to say that I wish I had switched to Mac a long, long time ago (instead of about a year ago). Anytime anyone asks me what kind of computer to get, I always say Mac first, and then Dell if they can't afford a Mac.

Todd Wilcox

GooberNumber9 · Post by **GooberNumber9** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:58 am

One more thing:
If you like the workflow of the Korg, you could graduate to a serious hard disk recorder and digital mixer instead of a computer. You can get a Yamaha 01V96 with an ADAT expansion card and an Alesis HD24 recorder for about $4000 total. That would give you 24 channels of rock-solid recording at 44.1 or 48 kHz, or 12 channels at 88.2 or 96 (you don't need the XR board for the ADAT if you use the converters on the Yamaha). The mixer has tons of built-in effects (although few as good as what you can get on a computer), and you can even do a little bit of automation in a way.

Just a thought.

Todd Wilcox

Mradyfist · Post by **Mradyfist** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:14 am

As an IT guy for a high school with well over 600 Macs, I can guarantee that you'll run into just as many stupid software issues as with a PC. Even if you don't feel like a computer expert on either system, don't switch OSes just for the fun of it; if you work on a Mac, buy a Mac, and if you work in Windows, then buy a Windows machine. In fact, this is especially important if you're not a power user, because if you don't already have a firm grasp on the underlying concepts behind GUIs it's more difficult to switch.

As for stability, I have a 17" Core 2 Duo iMac at work and a custom-built Opteron-based system running Vista at home. I wouldn't put either above the other for stability. However, I built two systems for my church which handle all their sound live, and they're running XP with absolutely no stability issues. If you go with a Mac, I would get an extended warranty, and you get a PC I'd find someone local to custom-build it for you.

JWL · Post by **JWL** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:41 am

Me like Sonar. I'll continue to use it until I get going with Linux.

markmeat · Post by **markmeat** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:35 pm

Sonar on a $300 WalMart Compaq. 10 ins via Firepod... haven't had a problem in over 4 years (except for a power supply going out on me... $60 fix). Is it underpowered? Maybe. I can run 20+ tracks of 24-bit audio at once with generous plugins per each track... it's enough for me.

MEAT

Rolsen · Post by **Rolsen** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:15 am

Markmeat - that's good to hear. May I ask what your interface is?

Mradyfist · Post by **Mradyfist** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:31 am

A little tip if you pick up a computer from an OEM like Compaq, Acer, etc: go into Add/Remove Programs in Control Panel, and remove pretty much everything that's not labeled "Windows". None of it is useful for audio. Also, I haven't tried doing anything audio-related in Vista yet, but I will say that it's generally more of a CPU and RAM hog than XP, even with all the pretty stuff turned off. Couple that with possible spotty drivers, and I'd make sure you find a computer that comes with XP.

markmeat · Post by **markmeat** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:09 pm

Mradyfist wrote:A little tip if you pick up a computer from an OEM like Compaq, Acer, etc: go into Add/Remove Programs in Control Panel, and remove pretty much everything that's not labeled "Windows". None of it is useful for audio. Also, I haven't tried doing anything audio-related in Vista yet, but I will say that it's generally more of a CPU and RAM hog than XP, even with all the pretty stuff turned off. Couple that with possible spotty drivers, and I'd make sure you find a computer that comes with XP.

Absolutely! This is great advice (and spot on with what I did when I bought this)... I've been building PC's for 12 years, but when it came time to get one for my basement studio, this lil' Walmart Compaq had almost everything I wanted (and at $300, they were begging me to take it)... now with the new power supply and an additional 360GB HD, it's got everything I need (I added some more RAM recently, but this thing ran fine beforehand). If your off-the-shelf PC DOES come pre-installed with Vista, I know even though they're not supposed to, all the WalMarts and Targets around here still have XP Pro on the shelves for like $99 with SP2 already on the disc...

Rolsen:
I'm using a Firepod as the interface... 8 pres plus 2 more digital ins via SPDIF... ran a little funny at first, but I updated the drivers and firmware with the most recent from presonus.com and it's a jewel.

I feel REAL funny typing this from work on my G5... it know I'm betraying it.

MEAT

creeping justin · Post by **creeping justin** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:34 pm

i'm no expert on this stuff, but maybe my experience could help. i moved from a roland 2480 to a PC-based DAW recently. i was also worried about software/hardware problems, but the latency thing was really getting me... i had a hard time understanding it for some reason. this made me steer clear of the PT LE idea, since it doesn't have auto delay compensation and limits your track count.

anyway, i ended up getting a quad-core/windows XP machine from pcusa.com for a very good price. I got a mackie 1200f firewire interface, I'm running REAPER software. everything really seems to be running well together. I can run it a very low latency for tracking (32 samples) or just use the mackie zero latency monitoring. I can also do huge track/plug-in counts. the REAPER forum is a huge help and they have an excellent user guide. it also includes an entire section on optimizing your computer for audio... plus you can find some helpful info at tweakxp.com and sweetwater.com in the tech notes section.

TheForgotten · Post by **TheForgotten** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:22 pm

FWIW - I'm all PC and I've had virtually no problems with hardware conficts etc.

I record bands pretty much for fun so my setup is not super l33t but it's PLENTY for what I do (12-32 track audio projects + a lot of MIDI stuff)

-AMD 3800+ 2.8ghz w/ 1GB Ram
-2 x Delta 44s
-REAPER - newer app. Very cheap, very awesome and highly customizable. It can be as simple or complex as you'd like it to be.
-Various crappy preamps
-Various semi-crappy mics (think my spendiest one is an SM58)
-BCF2000 MIDI Controller ...for pretending like I'm mixing on a console.

8th_note · Post by **8th_note** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:42 am

I've had wonderful results recording with a PC but I don't necessarily advocate it over a Mac. Here's a few things to think about and I'll give you a few suggestions if you go the PC route;

The first question you should answer is, "To Pro Tools, or not to Pro Tools..." If you have a reason to go with the most common platform and if you will be working with other studios that have Pro Tools then it's probably the way to go. If not, then you can get other programs that have more complete feature sets for far less money.

You indicate you aren't a computer nerd and that's an important point. I warn you - if you are going to get the most out of recording with a PC you will need to read forums like this one and engage in a continuous research effort to learn what's available and keep up with the best techniques. If you hate that activity then an all-in-one solution is probably the best route.

If you go with a PC the most important factor IMO is to make sure it's equipped with XP, not Vista. There are numerous reports of people having trouble with Vista in a recording environment and it isn't worth the headache. One good way to buy a PC for recording is to find a local PC shop, tell them what you want to use it for, and have them build it for you. They can install XP on the HD without all of the other crap you get when you buy a name-brand PC. This isn't the cheapest solution but it's a way to get a new PC with XP and not Vista. I believe that if you order from Dell you can still get XP installed instead of Vista which is another option.

I use a program called n-Track Studio ($75) and it works great for me. Forgotten mentioned Reaper which is another great low cost option. I would try one of these programs first and see if they do what you need to do. As you learn more about the environment you may want to spring for a more expensive program but chances are good that you'll never need to spend the money.

Plugins are a big issue. You'll need to budget for plugins to get the most out of PC recording. There are lots of free ones but you'll find that the ones you pay for are worth it. Figure at least $1000 for plugins.

I use an M-Audio Delta 1010 plus a Delta 66 interface and they are proven workhorses. These are PCI interfaces which have inherently low latency. There are lots of interfaces out there and that will be one of the more difficult decisions you'll have to make.

If all the above didn't scare you away from computer recording then I would say take the plunge. But you'll need to get in touch with your inner geek to make this work.

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Computer recording rig - starting from scratch

Computer recording rig - starting from scratch

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