Charging extra for gear?

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amyatt1
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Charging extra for gear?

Post by amyatt1 » Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:36 pm

*note* I did a quick search, and if this has been covered, let me know where and I'll check it out!*end note*

So after seeing this guys (http://www.thirdmonkrecords.com/studio/rates.php) rates for stuff, and hearing of a few other place that do similarly, I just wanted to hear what you guys thought about it. Seems sorta lame to me to charge extra for stuff thats in the studio (mics, out board, pedals, guitars, etc.) While I understand that charging clients for strings or heads for instruments, but charging for pedals? really?

Am I in the minority on this? I know that you have an overhead to cover for buying all that stuff, but shouldn't that be covered in the studios cost?

*Edit* Also, charging for cd-rs seems lame as well.

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Post by @?,*???&? » Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:47 pm

Nah, let the kids use their Line 6 for free and get shitty two-dimensional guitar sounds. It'll be perfect for their myspace demo and it will be something you won't have to put your name on.

The studio is a studio- not a guitar shop. If they want to use the amps, they rent the amps. Pretty simple. If I am only engineering a record I'll record whatever 'piece-o' the band brings in. If the band are paying a project rate for an album production, then they get to use the amps sans rental fee- because the project rate covers that.

This is the way business is done at real studios.

If you don't have anything worth renting to a band, that's a different story.

How do you feel about renting hard drives to the band (something I don't do)?

How do you feel about renting the band a reel of tape for multi-tracking (something I don't do)?

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Post by @?,*???&? » Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:58 pm

Checked out your gear list. Not much 'rare' stuff there. Not much to rent. Maybe a few pedals.

Are you planning on being a 'studio' or 'session guitar playing guy'? Can't tell from your site and I see a Pro Tools rig on your list...unlikely you'd have to bring that for guitar overdubs.

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Re: Charging extra for gear?

Post by JGriffin » Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:04 pm

There was a bit of a thread about this just recently, actually.
That guy...is the dude who posted the first two responses in this thread. And his policies are what that other thread was about.

Not presenting any side, just pointing it out.
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Post by Cellotron » Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:18 pm

The only time I think you should charge more for gear use in your studio is when it's something that you actually have to rent yourself to get it in for the client. Otherwise - why bother actually having the gear if you're not going to let clients use it???

For things that are "consumeables" - i.e. CD-R's, DVD-R's, hard drives, flash drives, reels of tape - then to me a reasonable flat fee for the client to walk away with it that covers the part's cost plus a little profit for the hassle of making sure its in stock and the time it takes to get the data on it and make sure it is to spec is warranted. "Rentals" of hard drive space seems really silly to me though.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Last edited by Cellotron on Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Cellotron » Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:21 pm

@?,*ƒƒƒ&™ wrote: This is the way business is done at real studios
There are MANY top of the line studios that do NOT do this!

Of course the nice thing about running your own business is that you get to set the rules and pricing to where you like them to be. It's just that in some cases prospective clients might balk at them.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

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Re: Charging extra for gear?

Post by mixerman » Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:29 pm

amyatt1 wrote:*note* I did a quick search, and if this has been covered, let me know where and I'll check it out!*end note*

So after seeing this guys (http://www.thirdmonkrecords.com/studio/rates.php) rates for stuff, and hearing of a few other place that do similarly, I just wanted to hear what you guys thought about it. Seems sorta lame to me to charge extra for stuff thats in the studio (mics, out board, pedals, guitars, etc.) While I understand that charging clients for strings or heads for instruments, but charging for pedals? really?

Am I in the minority on this? I know that you have an overhead to cover for buying all that stuff, but shouldn't that be covered in the studios cost?

*Edit* Also, charging for cd-rs seems lame as well.
I always think twice about hiring out a studio that makes me pay for gear a la carte. Get a leg up on your competition, offer everything you've got to your clients. If you have something rare or special that you want to rent out, then don't keep it in the room.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

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Post by ledogboy » Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:28 am

@?,*???&? wrote:Checked out your gear list. Not much 'rare' stuff there. Not much to rent. Maybe a few pedals.

Are you planning on being a 'studio' or 'session guitar playing guy'? Can't tell from your site and I see a Pro Tools rig on your list...unlikely you'd have to bring that for guitar overdubs.
Adam (the original poster) pretty much works at my place. We have plenty of gear, some rarer than others, all perfectly suitable for what we do. I wouldn't dream of charging extra for this stuff- as far as I can tell gear, good rooms, competence and being pleasant human beings are the reasons people are kind enough to rent time from us.

I suspect that Adam brings this up because we had a freelance engineer who was slightly disgruntled today when reminded that I charge $25 extra/day for 2" sessions. I do it, because for my sessions that are on tape, there is more setup to be done. I dunno, I'm thinking about it some more. I know of other studios in our area that do the same, and it made sense to me when I made these policies. Without totally de-railing the original post, does anyone have thoughts on this? Cheers,
Ryan
ps. Holy crap, charging for guitar effects!

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Post by Cellotron » Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:57 am

ledogboy wrote:

I suspect that Adam brings this up because we had a freelance engineer who was slightly disgruntled today when reminded that I charge $25 extra/day for 2" sessions. I do it, because for my sessions that are on tape, there is more setup to be done. I dunno, I'm thinking about it some more. I know of other studios in our area that do the same, and it made sense to me when I made these policies. Without totally de-railing the original post, does anyone have thoughts on this?
When I have a mastering session that originates off of a 1/4" or 1/2" source there is indeed about a half hour of extra time prior to the session needed for cleaning, demagging, calibrating and patching in the deck, that I don't charge for at all. The reason being is that I want to actually encourage people to work off of tape as it more often than not gives end results that sounds better, and it's more fun for me to work from. ymmv!

Best regards,
Steve Berson

amyatt1
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Post by amyatt1 » Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:21 am

@?,*???&? wrote:Nah, let the kids use their Line 6 for free and get shitty two-dimensional guitar sounds. It'll be perfect for their myspace demo and it will be something you won't have to put your name on.
When you engineer something, you don't want to put your name on it? Aren't you supposed to try and get the best sounds and help people learn about different things? Be it mics, amps, consoles, whatever.
@?,*???&? wrote: How do you feel about renting hard drives to the band (something I don't do)?

How do you feel about renting the band a reel of tape for multi-tracking (something I don't do)?
I can see renting bands reels of tape, seeing as new tape is expensive and somewhat hard to come by. I've had bands ask if the studio (or myself) rent reels so they wouldn't have to buy one and have let people just use the reels i've got before. As for hard drives, I'm fine with letting bands use mine. I usually push for them to get a drive for a back-up for themselves, but I've still go stuff on my drives from over a year ago. When I need the space back I'll call them and make sure that they've got a copy if they need it.
@?,*???&? wrote:Checked out your gear list. Not much 'rare' stuff there. Not much to rent. Maybe a few pedals.

Are you planning on being a 'studio' or 'session guitar playing guy'? Can't tell from your site and I see a Pro Tools rig on your list...unlikely you'd have to bring that for guitar overdubs.
Hmm... you read the gear list but not the intro paragraph that says I'm a recording engineer who works out of the bay area? Not a recording studio or session player. The gear I own, while not 'rare' is still pretty good and gets used regularly (which is also stated) when I have sessions with people.
ledogboy wrote: I suspect that Adam brings this up because we had a freelance engineer who was slightly disgruntled today when reminded that I charge $25 extra/day for 2" sessions. I do it, because for my sessions that are on tape, there is more setup to be done. I dunno, I'm thinking about it some more. I know of other studios in our area that do the same, and it made sense to me when I made these policies. Without totally de-railing the original post, does anyone have thoughts on this? Cheers,
Ryan
ps. Holy crap, charging for guitar effects!
Yeah, that was one reason, another was seeing this guys page and the extra fees, and wanting to hear what people (who do and don't charge extra) reasons were for doing so.
@?,*???&? wrote: This is the way business is done at real studios.
Thats fine that thats how you run your business, I guess theres just a lot more 'fake' studios out there than I thought.

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Post by red cross » Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:06 am

Nah, let the kids use their Line 6 for free and get shitty two-dimensional guitar sounds. It'll be perfect for their myspace demo and it will be something you won't have to put your name on.
That's a pretty shit attitude to have and probably the main reason why alot of kids want to do it themselves nowadays. Why put up with that shit when they can get shitty two-dimensional guitar sounds at home instead of paying some disinterested, bored cunt in a "real" studio to achieve exactly the same rubbish?
The studio is a studio- not a guitar shop. If they want to use the amps, they rent the amps. Pretty simple. If I am only engineering a record I'll record whatever 'piece-o' the band brings in. If the band are paying a project rate for an album production, then they get to use the amps sans rental fee- because the project rate covers that.

This is the way business is done at real studios.
That's funny. I just freelanced a project at a place with a nice 8058 desk, PT HD, decent outboard etc. and they let us have free use of their arsenal of amps as well. And no, we didn't have to sync up two LE systems on the fucking fly either. Are they a "real" studio or not? What utter cock you spout sometimes.

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Post by No Wave Casio Kitsch » Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:10 am

ledogboy wrote:I suspect that Adam brings this up because we had a freelance engineer who was slightly disgruntled today when reminded that I charge $25 extra/day for 2" sessions. I do it, because for my sessions that are on tape, there is more setup to be done. I dunno, I'm thinking about it some more. I know of other studios in our area that do the same, and it made sense to me when I made these policies. Without totally de-railing the original post, does anyone have thoughts on this?
This sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:16 am

i should really just sit this one out, but lord help me i just can't resist.
@?,*???&? wrote:Nah, let the kids use their Line 6 for free and get shitty two-dimensional guitar sounds. It'll be perfect for their myspace demo and it will be something you won't have to put your name on.
jeff, be honest with us: do you have any clients EVER? with the attitudes you display and the opinions you express it is difficult to imagine any right-thinking person booking time with you.

but let us try: imagine that i have booked time at the recording paradise that is third monk records. as i am an excellent guitar player, i crank through all my basic rhythm tracks (using the deluxe reverb that i brought) in no time. i then politely ask "hey jeff, can i use this fancy amp you have here for my bitchin solos?"

and you would then sneer "The studio is a studio- not a guitar shop." and tell me that i could RENT the amp for $35 an overdub?

this strikes you as an effective business model?

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Post by @?,*???&? » Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:51 am

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:i should really just sit this one out, but lord help me i just can't resist.
@?,*???&? wrote:Nah, let the kids use their Line 6 for free and get shitty two-dimensional guitar sounds. It'll be perfect for their myspace demo and it will be something you won't have to put your name on.
jeff, be honest with us: do you have any clients EVER? with the attitudes you display and the opinions you express it is difficult to imagine any right-thinking person booking time with you.
Dude, I am booked almost non-stop.

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Post by @?,*???&? » Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:54 am

amyatt1 wrote:Hmm... you read the gear list but not the intro paragraph that says I'm a recording engineer who works out of the bay area? Not a recording studio or session player. The gear I own, while not 'rare' is still pretty good and gets used regularly (which is also stated) when I have sessions with people.
The site lacked imaging. I could not glean what you do.

You certainly don't seem to have a host of gear to work with. I would not choose to work with you because your studio assets seem slim at best- if that's what you do.

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