Charging extra for gear?

[Jon Nolan]

The studio is a studio- not a guitar shop. If they want to use the amps, they rent the amps. Pretty simple. If I am only engineering a record I'll record whatever 'piece-o' the band brings in. If the band are paying a project rate for an album production, then they get to use the amps sans rental fee- because the project rate covers that.

This is the way business is done at real studios.

my old band didn't get charged for using billy gibbons' hot rodded fender amp, or the vintage mellotron, or the grand piano, or the echo chamber, or the 80's Defender video game in thew hallway at Ardent Studios. I'd say they are "real." no? kinda?

paul kolderie didnt charge me to use his 60's J45, or his drums, or piano at camp street. He's kinda real, I'd say. his studio didn't seem at all hack to me. not at all. none more hack.

bradley hartman didn't charge us to use his vintage flanger (mutron? mxr? its whatever sneaky pete used) at his studio - and certainly not $15! he's recorded a coupla cool things me thinks.

all these folks had all these weird gold/silver record looking thingies on their walls. like.....lots of 'em. stuff that isn't cluttering countless "used" bins even.

weird. i did business at "fake" studios! nice. fake studios rule apparently.

[Jon Nolan]

The only time I think you should charge more for gear use in your studio is when it's something that you actually have to rent yourself to get it in for the client. Otherwise - why bother actually having the gear if you're not going to let clients use it???

For things that are "consumeables" - i.e. CD-R's, DVD-R's, hard drives, flash drives, reels of tape - then to me a reasonable flat fee for the client to walk away with it that covers the part's cost plus a little profit for the hassle of making sure its in stock and the time it takes to get the data on it and make sure it is to spec is warranted. "Rentals" of hard drive space seems really silly to me though.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

what he said....although, the rental of hard drive space has always seemed more like a "getcher shit off my computer!" kind of a charge that stuff can add up quick, and become a pain for a studio, so i understand. i dunno. ive never been charged for that tho.

[chris harris]

Dude, I am booked almost non-stop.

Amazing! Just a few days ago you were "barely making ends meet", or something to that effect. Are people not renting the amps or what? How can you be booked non-stop and barely getting by?

[Dan Phelps]

I am more a musician than engineer, so to chime in from that perspective...

...a policy like what Third Monk Records has would definitely dissuade me from booking time there. I have plenty of gear (guitars, amps, drums, etc...) of my own, but it would be a serious vibe killer to be in a studio, see some cool/inspiring instrument, guitar pedal, or whatever, and be told "Oh, you can use that for XXX amount per overdub." Or to say "Man, you know what would be great on this is? An ebow part. Whoops. I left mine at home...hey Jeff..."

I am not saying that these policies are wrong, I am just saying that they WOULD be a determining factor in my choice to book or not book time at particular studio. Partly because it's seems a little petty, but also because it speaks to the attitude and personality of the Owner/Engineer. I don't think I need that kind of personality working on any project that I ever do. Ever.

Additionally, there are plenty of great "Home grown" and "Professional" places that have tons of cool mics, amps, snare drums, etc...that don't charge extra using them. For instance, one kick ass studio owner even called another engineer that he knows in town to borrow a pair of Chandler Germanium pres after I asked about them. And DID NOT CHARGE ME.

Do you think I will hesitate to book time with him again?

Most engineers I know who own their own studios care about the quality of sound coming out of their rooms, and get a lot of new business through word of mouth. So they want it to sound good, they want to use the U67 instead of the RODE NT-1, if that is the right thing for the sound. Not: "Hey, your voice would sound REALLY good through the U67...if you want to rent it for XXX amount..."

If an engineer makes it sound good, is fun to work with, and is low-drama, then I am going to work with them again AND I will happily send others to them. I will want to see them continue to succeed because they have done a good job for me.

Does that make sense?

[MoreSpaceEcho]

it makes perfect sense to nearly everyone.

[mjau]

but it would be a serious vibe killer to be in a studio, see some cool/inspiring instrument, guitar pedal, or whatever, and be told "Oh, you can use that for XXX amount per overdub."

I agree. It fogs up the creative mindset that you want to foster in the studio...it asks that you step out of your creativity, make a financial decision, and then try to find your creativity again. Why not remove that step and just let everything flow?

[Dan Phelps]

but it would be a serious vibe killer to be in a studio, see some cool/inspiring instrument, guitar pedal, or whatever, and be told "Oh, you can use that for XXX amount per overdub."

I agree. It fogs up the creative mindset that you want to foster in the studio...it asks that you step out of your creativity, make a financial decision, and then try to find your creativity again. Why not remove that step and just let everything flow?

Totally. It is also just a difference in between two different mindsets on the part of the studio owner:

1. Making as much money as I can right now at the expense of returning clients (and thusly, much more income down the road).

2. Building up a roster of returning clients who continue to hire you support your career.

If some one is your client once, that is it. If they come back again and again...well, that seems like a much more advantageous situation for everyone.

[the finger genius]

I suspect that Adam brings this up because we had a freelance engineer who was slightly disgruntled today when reminded that I charge $25 extra/day for 2" sessions. I do it, because for my sessions that are on tape, there is more setup to be done. I dunno, I'm thinking about it some more. I know of other studios in our area that do the same, and it made sense to me when I made these policies. Without totally de-railing the original post, does anyone have thoughts on this?

This sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

+1


This also sounds extremely reasonable to me. I would say that it should be made clear that this is a maintenance cost. As long as it's mentioned prominently on your rate card, or in discussions, it shouldn't be an issue. Just make sure (if you can) that it's not a surprise.

I used to work as an assistant at a very reputable "real" studio, which tried renting Pro Tools Rigs for 250$ daily. They have since gone out of business.

[@?,*???&?]

Dude, I am booked almost non-stop.

Amazing! Just a few days ago you were "barely making ends meet", or something to that effect. Are people not renting the amps or what? How can you be booked non-stop and barely getting by?

No, what I said was, this is barely a break-even business and getting worse.

Between rent, utilities and equipment maintenance, this studio gets lots of work from people who can't afford to pay 'real' studio rates, but doesn't make nary a dime in profit. That said, at least one 'real' studio in this area has seen a drop in hourly rate from $105 an hour to $70 with an engineer- could it be the hourly at $35 per hour here? Maybe. Should I raise my rates to be more in line?

I am sure most of you would say no. I should be doing this for free.

[the finger genius]

105$ an hour? Dude, Studio 1 at the Hit Factory could be had for 2000$ a day.

Does anyone else ever get the feeling this guy is a fictitious poster, much like the old thom yorke posts, just trying to egg us all on?

[@?,*???&?]

105$ an hour? Dude, Studio 1 at the Hit Factory could be had for 2000$ a day.

Does anyone else ever get the feeling this guy is a fictitious poster, much like the old thom yorke posts, just trying to egg us all on?

Yes and where is the Hit Factory today?

[the finger genius]

Closed. Because no one was booking sessions at 2000$ a day.

[Gentleman Jim]

the finger genius wrote:

Does anyone else ever get the feeling this guy is a fictitious poster, much like the old thom yorke posts, just trying to egg us all on?

Yes. Especially after that 2008 Distinction Without A Difference Award (R) -winning post right there. How fine exactly is the line that separates "barely making ends meet" from "barely breaking even and getting worse?" If it were not for his habit of being a complete prig to people who call him out, I would think it's all a funny joke. As it is, I'm starting to think it's an unfunny joke.

I have a theory that it's really one of the other regulars, and that either there is no real Jeff Robinson - the website and all is just an elaborate ruse; or that there is a real Jeff Robinson, but he doesn't know anything about any of this. He's sitting in his studio blissfully unaware that somebody's out there making him look like a complete idiot by posting nonsense almost twice a day.

Seriously, has ANYBODY here ever had any dealings or experiences with Jeff other than on a message board?

For the record: I don't mean to trash him. However he wants to run his business has no effect on me at all. I wish him all the best, and hopefully with that will come inner peace. Except I'm starting to lump him in with The Tooth Fairy, Keyser Soze, and the Loch Ness Monster.

[roscoenyc]

Closed. Because no one was booking sessions at 2000$ a day.

wrong.

hit factory was totally booked. the real estate was worth way to much to run a business there.... there are lots of articles about the end of the hit factory. lack of bookings was not the reason it is gone.

[mixerman]

Closed. Because no one was booking sessions at 2000$ a day.

wrong.

hit factory was totally booked. the real estate was worth way to much to run a business there.... there are lots of articles about the end of the hit factory. lack of bookings was not the reason it is gone.

Good riddance. I hated that place.

Mixerman