Charging extra for gear?

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the finger genius
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Post by the finger genius » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:51 am

I was working there in the last year. On a good day four of the seven rooms were booked. More frequently it was two or three. With all the money they shelled out to build two new rooms, that wasn't good enough.

They owned the building, so how did real estate costs have anything to do with their closing (other than offering an attractive alternative, e.g. condos)?

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Post by @?,*???&? » Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:01 pm

I wonder how many assistant engineers and runners they had...

Probably bankrupted them having to pay 'staff'.

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Post by the finger genius » Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:20 pm

Not really, since we only worked when there were sessions happening, and after three years running and assisting (and three promotions) I was still making only 7$ an hour.

I think it was most likely the millions of dollars spent to build two new rooms (along with two new consoles for existing rooms.) The idea there was always to be the biggest and best (in this case meaning most expensive.) In my opinion, that's what did them in, not paying 5.50$ per hour to a couple of runners.

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Post by locosoundman » Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:58 am

They sold out at the top of the NY real estate market.

Doesn't matter how much they were making or not making - someone made them an offer that they would have been stupid to refuse. They no doubt saw the writing on the wall as far as the studio business model is concerned. It's a terrible business model to begin with, but the studio business is the real estate business. As long as you remember that, you will make out.

Take the money from the sale, throw it in a nice investment account, move to Florida and run Hit Factory Miami. Hang out at beach, collect huge dividend check, go record music with no financial stress.

Sounds like a good plan to me.
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Post by cfMC » Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:36 pm

mixerman wrote:
Good riddance. I hated that place.

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Post by Ultrastudio » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:27 am

@?,*???&? wrote:Nah, let the kids use their Line 6 for free and get shitty two-dimensional guitar sounds. It'll be perfect for their myspace demo and it will be something you won't have to put your name on.

The studio is a studio- not a guitar shop. If they want to use the amps, they rent the amps. Pretty simple. If I am only engineering a record I'll record whatever 'piece-o' the band brings in. If the band are paying a project rate for an album production, then they get to use the amps sans rental fee- because the project rate covers that.

This is the way business is done at real studios.

If you don't have anything worth renting to a band, that's a different story.

How do you feel about renting hard drives to the band (something I don't do)?

How do you feel about renting the band a reel of tape for multi-tracking (something I don't do)?
Not any real studio I'd want to work in. Several other posts have already pointed out the asinine nature of your policy. It's self-defeating on several levels. I have, on occasion, put items out of view for clients that I don't know (or know too well).

A lot of what I have learned about running a studio comes from negative experiences in other studios: having to rent gear and mics a la carte, working under florescent light, burnt out engineers that make it a point to let you know they don't give a shit, etc. I find it hard to believe that you get much repeat business. I want the studio environment to be a comfortable place that inspires creativity by putting the artists at ease and removing distractions so they can focus on the music, not a place where they are worried about being nickel and dimed every time I change a mic.

IMO, there should be one rate, whether it's hourly, block or project. It should be stated up front what's included in said rate. It should be simple to explain and understand. The band should pay for their own HD, tape costs and rented gear from a 3rd party. I don't charge for keeping the files on my drive while the session is active but I make it clear that I'm not responsible for loss of data. I do charge a small fee to rent 2" tape. A nominal charge for extra time involved in setting up a tape machine is OK. Piano tuning should be paid for by the band but if my guy is generous that day, the band gets a break, too. CD-R's for the band members should be included.

A good studio should also have some extra batteries, guitar and bass strings. If you mark them up a little bit for your trouble, that's OK. I have set up clients guitars and basses for them and tuned their drums. It makes my recordings sound better. I do try to screen my potential clients and weed out those for whom no amount of effort is enough. Now I know where to send them.

-John
My studio link is http://www.ultrastudio.com

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Post by @?,*???&? » Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:38 am

Ultrastudio wrote:
@?,*???&? wrote:A good studio should also have some extra batteries, guitar and bass strings. If you mark them up a little bit for your trouble, that's OK. I have set up clients guitars and basses for them and tuned their drums. It makes my recordings sound better. I do try to screen my potential clients and weed out those for whom no amount of effort is enough. Now I know where to send them.

-John
You sell batteries and Guitar strings?

That's laughable. Guitar strings are absolutely idiosyncratic to the player. With all the brands, types and gauges, you must have one helluva lot of money tied up in stock that just sits with those.

As for batteries, Kmart is less than a mile away from this studio and their prices are great for crap like that.

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Post by @?,*???&? » Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:42 am

Ultrastudio wrote:
@?,*???&? wrote:Piano tuning should be paid for by the band but if my guy is generous that day, the band gets a break, too. CD-R's for the band members should be included.
By the band? Who has the instrument? This is a first class rip-off.

I have seen other studios attempt to do this too. It's a major turn off. I'll leave that studio in a heartbeat whether they have a Steinway or not.

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Post by Jess P » Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:41 am

I'm speechless... :|

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Post by cgarges » Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:24 am

@?,*???&? wrote:You sell batteries and Guitar strings?

That's laughable. Guitar strings are absolutely idiosyncratic to the player. With all the brands, types and gauges, you must have one helluva lot of money tied up in stock that just sits with those.
I detect a note of sarcasm, but for the sake of this discussion:

I don't think there's anything laughable about being prepared. I find that if a guy is not together enough to have extra strings with him, he's usually not picky about what goes on the guitar when a string breaks. I keep a few sets around, although not an entire music store's worth. Most guys are also thankful when I've got extra strings, heads, and sticks around when the closest music stores are closed on Sundays or at midnight. If I make a few extra bucks on it, it either teaches them to be more prepared next time or allows me to make more profit next time.
@?,*???&? wrote:As for batteries, Kmart is less than a mile away from this studio and their prices are great for crap like that.
I think most bands would rather pay $5 for a single battery than $25 or more for a half hour of studio time while they drive to the nearest K-Mart and back. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but I've never had a band elect to not use what I've got immediately available in emergency situations.

To me, there's a big difference in charging money for expendable items such as guitar strings, drum heads, sticks, and batteries that the musicians would normally bring with them in terms of general maintenance and charging money for gear rental on some instrument or amp that takes up space at the studio. To me, what's there is either available or it's not.
@?,*???&? wrote:
Ultrastudio wrote:Piano tuning should be paid for by the band but if my guy is generous that day, the band gets a break, too.
By the band? Who has the instrument? This is a first class rip-off.

I have seen other studios attempt to do this too. It's a major turn off. I'll leave that studio in a heartbeat whether they have a Steinway or not.
I also believe that a studio should regularly pay to keep their piano in good shape (whether it's used regularly or not), but any piano player who really gives a shit is going to want the piano tuned the morning of their session and probably again at some point if the session is a few days long or the player is particularly aggressive. If a piano tuner has to be called in for a specific session, the folks paying for the session ought to pay for the specific maintenance, but again, the studio should be responsible in their general upkeep. I feel the same way about any instruments the studio makes available.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
Last edited by cgarges on Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:09 pm

@?,*???&? wrote: It's a major turn off. I'll leave that studio in a heartbeat.
this is precisely what everyone here is telling you about your charging for gear policies.

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Post by gregnrom » Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:31 pm

Charging extra to use specific bits of studio equipment is completely douchey. A major red flag there.
Man that guitar part would sound killer if you played it through our Hiwatt. Too bad you don't have another $20... Great, thanks. Let me go unlock the display case and get it for you. Oh yeah, while were at it, we're going to need a speaker cable so...
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Post by mjau » Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:13 pm

Oh snap.

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Post by Ultrastudio » Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:55 pm

Just to clarify, I don't "sell guitar strings". I keep a couple sets for spares in case someone breaks a string. I agree that strings are specific to the player but no one's ever complained about me having a spare esp. if it's 11PM on Sunday night, or any time. Actually, I don't think I've ever charged anyone for a string. Batteries are easier to come by at all hours and I'd be just as happy to give you one now so we can keep working. Later, when you get a minute, you can go down to the quickie mart and buy one for me. I'm not in business to sell batteries. I'm interested in keeping things moving creatively. With regard to piano tuning, I don't tune it for every session; it's not necessary when it's properly maintained. I just don't charge an add'l fee if you want to play it. -John
My studio link is http://www.ultrastudio.com

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Post by RefD » Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:12 pm

gregnrom wrote:Charging extra to use specific bits of studio equipment is completely douchey. A major red flag there.
Man that guitar part would sound killer if you played it through our Hiwatt. Too bad you don't have another $20... Great, thanks. Let me go unlock the display case and get it for you. Oh yeah, while were at it, we're going to need a speaker cable so...
and then there's the extra charge for the speaker cabinet.

oh, you wanted speakers in the speaker cabinet??
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