Should I make the switch from Pro Tools LE to Logic Studio?

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ShinyBox
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Post by ShinyBox » Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:05 pm

The whole project I completed recently was done with a Fireface 800 into Logic 7. I've been really happy with it.

ju

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Post by analogcabin » Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:21 pm

weatherbox wrote:So, (other) Logic guys... what interfaces are you using? I'm itching to get away from PTLE, and to get more towards mixing OTB... 16 outs, nah... 24 outs. There's board in the future... the chaining Ensemble multiple units thing never panned out, did it?
The Metric Halo stuff is fantastic. But honestly, the Echo Audiofire 12 is very very nice too. 24 I/O's no mediocre pre's in the way. Uber stable.
Looky here

Can be had all day for under $550.00. Snoop around on a few forums. See what other folks have to say. This is a great read:
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Post by pk » Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:34 pm

@?,*???&? wrote:
pk wrote:I did the switch to Logic Studio a few months ago after 7 years of PT LE.

Pretty much what everyone said and I'm just adding my +1.
Not only did I ditch LE, but also the piece of crap 002R that it needed to run. I got an Apogee Ensemble and words cannot describe the jump in overall quality of my recordings. Simply put, I haven't had this much fun recording in years. Leaving the PT world is like breaking up that relationship that's been lingering in your head for years, then you do it and a new freedom awaits.

The bundled instruments, the plugins (top notch stock eq, comp, reverb and delay may I add), bundled loops, Main Stage, etc., it's an amazing deal to pass up.
Yes there is a bit of a learning curve, although much easier now than in previous versions of Logic, but stick with it, customize your workflow and you'll be flying around it within a few weeks.

I also will add that, IMO, the sound quality is much better in Logic, which could be just a result of the better interface or the software alone, the latter being debatable as some will argue that all software should - theoretically - sound the same.
I am on the cliff. See me on the cliff?

LE requires SO MUCH WORK to get something out of it that sounds like a record. Do you get to an end result quicker with Logic? What is your main style of music that you are working in?
lol...jump, my friend, jump! The water is great!

Obviously any good recording requires some degree of work, whether at the tracking or mixing stage, or both, but I will say this...ever since Toaster came over shortly after the switch and helped me understand recording levels (read that recent long thread here on this board), calibrating my old Soundcraft board with Ensemble, everything just seemed to fall into place since then. I cannot thank him enough, it has made a world of difference. Perhaps had I done the same in the PT days, I would have made better sounding recordings too, dunno, but Logic, to my ears, just sounds a bit more 'analog', 'warm', 'gooey' (gosh I hate referring to such terms but f**k me, it's so true), why that is I don't know. I can finally mix properly and really hear what's going on.

For a long time, just like many others, I've been eyeing all sorts of plugins to buy in order to get better mixes. I just finished a remix, and while mixing it, I was amazed at how good the stock eq and compressors are in Logic, realizing that while Waves, URS and Sonalksis are all great and certainly hold their own, I'm perfectly content using all the Logic stuff and spend money elsewhere, perhaps a good tube preamp and compressor, better mic or two, etc.

I mostly do dark instrumental ambient/cinematic stuff, but lately have been collaborating and recording other people, friends, etc., doing remixes, etc.
I've been using samples for the most part and only in the past 6 months have I been addicted with using mics and just playing everything live. So a lot more guitars and live bass (and by the way, the DI inputs on the Ensemble are great), keyboards through a guitar amp, etc. I don't even have "great" mics, but they do a good job (Rode NT1A, AKG Perception 200, Cascade Fathead II stereo pair, Studio Projects C1, Shure Beta 57 and 58)

There was a time when I was always bummed when playing back a recorded live source, it just never sounded right, and now that's all changed. On this remix, for example, I did 5 layers of washy distorted guitars going from my Epiphone Dot ---> pedals--->Vox Pathfinder 15R--->Shure Beta 57 half an inch from grill----> Ensemble preamp = totally f***ng amazing sound, and the best part....I can clearly hear all the 5 parts (they all vary in tone of course) and then the mixing is a breeze. I think this is mostly due the good very decent AD/DA on the Ensemble (KILLS the 002R).

Blah, blah.....yeah man, I could go on about how happy I am since the switch, but suffice it to say that you won't regret it, just be patient while learning Logic and you'll be very happy later on.

JUMP!

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Post by analogcabin » Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:44 pm

Oh yeah, it's time to jump from ProTools.

FWIW, I really love Ableton Live...... and I use it as a replacement for my Radar setup which was a replacement for my tape machine. No regrets at all.

Very underrated as a DAW. Simple, straightforward and kool in a Beck's Beer sort of way.

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Post by weatherbox » Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:46 pm

John, you're using RME stuff to interface between Logic and your board, yea? What unit(s)? Friend I work with inherited a console(!) and we're looking to get to a 24-out setup to match with the board he inherited... the RME stuff is sounding like a pretty good bang/buck deal, but coming at it with so little non-PT experience I'm a little flummoxed with this "not tied to one manufacturer" thing.

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Post by Jay Reynolds » Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:08 pm

e.maynard wrote:Oh yeah, it's time to jump from ProTools.

FWIW, I really love Ableton Live...... and I use it as a replacement for my Radar setup which was a replacement for my tape machine. No regrets at all.

Very underrated as a DAW. Simple, straightforward and kool in a Beck's Beer sort of way.
+1 for Live. But not the best/quickest set of editing tools. Still, out of any app, esp. if you are using virtual instruments, its the shortest amount of time from launch to actually recording an idea, IMHO.
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Post by trodden » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:20 pm

e.maynard wrote:
weatherbox wrote:So, (other) Logic guys... what interfaces are you using? I'm itching to get away from PTLE, and to get more towards mixing OTB... 16 outs, nah... 24 outs. There's board in the future... the chaining Ensemble multiple units thing never panned out, did it?
The Metric Halo stuff is fantastic. But honestly, the Echo Audiofire 12 is very very nice too. 24 I/O's no mediocre pre's in the way. Uber stable.
Looky here

Can be had all day for under $550.00. Snoop around on a few forums. See what other folks have to say. This is a great read:
Here



.
so you can gang two of those together for 24 ins and outs? rad.

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Post by appleburger » Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:22 pm

after using PTLE for years starting with a 001 and then a 002r i was VERY reluctant to give logic 8 a chance. but after the first few hours i spent with it, i will NEVER go back! logic is soooo much more intuitive and user friendly. not to mention the stock plug-ins and tons virtual instruments sound GREAT compared to the standard PT plugs. but thats not even the best part....now i don't have to use digidesigns proprietary hardware!!!! now i have an actual high quality interface instead of settling for a lesser piece of gear just to be able to use the software. my ensemble demolishes my 002 in every possible way! and if i want/need to ever use PT again, i'm only a $400 m-audio lightbridge away from being able to use my ensemble with PT.

a lot of the updates in the new PT demo videos were ripped straight from what logic has been doing for years. as i watched the vid on digi's site i was blown away how 99% of the cool new features were direct ripoffs of logic.

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Post by Brett Siler » Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:31 pm

I heard on Logic you cannot assign a track to mono out unless you are using Apogee hardware. Any truth to this?

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Post by tdbajus » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:16 pm

e.maynard wrote:
weatherbox wrote:So, (other) Logic guys... what interfaces are you using? I'm itching to get away from PTLE, and to get more towards mixing OTB... 16 outs, nah... 24 outs. There's board in the future... the chaining Ensemble multiple units thing never panned out, did it?
The Metric Halo stuff is fantastic. But honestly, the Echo Audiofire 12 is very very nice too. 24 I/O's no mediocre pre's in the way. Uber stable.
Looky here

Can be had all day for under $550.00. Snoop around on a few forums. See what other folks have to say. This is a great read:
Here.


+1 on how great the Metric Halo stuff is. Been using it 4+ years or so now, and love it.

I have used Logic for a long time, and I don't know why, as I find it to be the worst audio editor I have ever used. Try something as basic as looping a guitar part that you have recorded with 3 mikes a few times.
It does not zoom down to the sample level so it's hard to edit out clicks on the beginings and ends of edits, the cross fade tool is practically useless (it loves to make a crossfade between 2 clips that aren't next to each other, for instance), the snap-to-grid feature snaps your audio anywhere but where you want it to go, the swipe comping likes to unravel itsself...

I've been using DAWs for almost 15 years and I can say that i have never used a clumsier audio editor. I've owned Digi's Session 8, Cubase, Ableton Live, and Vegas. Edit-wise, Logic doesn't even come close to even Session 8, which I bought in, like, 1994

Jesus- it's easier, faster, and more reliable to edit audio in f$%^ing After Effects. I don't even know if I am kidding. Seriously.

There's a lot of decent effects there, but I have a UAD card, so I don't use very many of them, and the soft synths are pretty fantastic, actually. Their Rhodes is great, especially, and the Hammond is great too. Still though, I use them to scetch out ideas, and then re-record them with my acetone, farfisa, or microkorg, all of which i far prefer.

I'm thinking of migrating to Ableton Live, which has been a joy to use so far as a piece of ancillary software. It's the opposite of Logic- the interface is beautifully laid out, intuitive, full of useful utilities. I'm curious to see what I'll think of it after a few days of using it as my main DAW, bnut we'll see after this weekend.
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Post by firesine » Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:53 am

tdbajus wrote: I have used Logic for a long time, and I don't know why, as I find it to be the worst audio editor I have ever used. Try something as basic as looping a guitar part that you have recorded with 3 mikes a few times.
Groups?

If you put a bit of time and effort into learning how to use Logic you will realize that all these problems are in your head.

It's a great DAW, give it a chance. I recommend David Dvorin's books if you want to learn the many awesome features in a coherent way.
Mmm, lung butter.

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Post by timmymacdd » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:38 am

LOgic has sucked A$$ for as many years as it has been out in my opinion. I would hope they are getting closer with logic 8. People used to swear by it 8 years ago too though......so I stole it and used it and it seems to be made for kids.

So me being cheap as hell....I go with a cheap pc. 1,000 bucks and cubase. I have no complaints and I can use all plugins during the year they come out. I even use it with vista no problems no crashing.

PC's and Cubase......much much better. Better interface. better screens. way easier to use. and it does everything. But I am biased because I use nuendo over protools professionally.

The only complaint I might have is that it is not in every studio like protools is. But it is in the studios I work in, I make sure of it.


ANyways that is my two cents. Now if I had A MAC maybe I would think different but I don't do macs. That is a big waste of money....but you look cooler at the coffee shop. But As a semi-pro home hobbyist type...It is definately a big PC/cubase thing.

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Post by timmymacdd » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:45 am

firesine wrote:
tdbajus wrote: I have used Logic for a long time, and I don't know why, as I find it to be the worst audio editor I have ever used. Try something as basic as looping a guitar part that you have recorded with 3 mikes a few times.
Groups?

If you put a bit of time and effort into learning how to use Logic you will realize that all these problems are in your head.

It's a great DAW, give it a chance. I recommend David Dvorin's books if you want to learn the many awesome features in a coherent way.

HMMM>...I used logic for 7 years. and it sucked every step of the way.

Howver at the apple store it does have the coolest box. But I see the setup looks the same as it has for several years.


And it is just as the last guy said on editing.....sucks butt compared to other programs.
I think you can do everything in logic however not as easy as other programs.

When I sit down to work nowadays though I open ableton if I have wirters block.....
Reason is now a thing of the past....but better than ableton.
Cubase is king. With some virtual instruments and a microphone or two.

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Post by JohnDavisNYC » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:46 am

the weird thing about audio software is that certain things work for certain people and other things absolutely piss them off....

i have used protools since the audiomedia III card came out, and i have never ever really liked using it, even when it was the only options...

someone mentioned nuendo, which i have only used a few times and found to be THE MOST un-intuitive software, right up there with DP... but that is just me. Logic and PT are in a very similar family to me, and i am comfortable on either, although i will curse my way through a PT session and be much faster and more efficient in Logic.

I actually find editing to be way easier in Logic, and I am suprised that people have problems with editing and clicks with crossfades and stuff... i find the fades in Logic to sound great, and i rarely, if ever, have edit clicks i have to deal with.

granted, neither sound as good as the edits or fades in RADAR, but that is to be expected....

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Post by timmymacdd » Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:38 am

firesine wrote:
tdbajus wrote: I have used Logic for a long time, and I don't know why, as I find it to be the worst audio editor I have ever used. Try something as basic as looping a guitar part that you have recorded with 3 mikes a few times.
Groups?

If you put a bit of time and effort into learning how to use Logic you will realize that all these problems are in your head.

It's a great DAW, give it a chance. I recommend David Dvorin's books if you want to learn the many awesome features in a coherent way.

HMMM>...I used logic for 7 years. and it sucked every step of the way.

Howver at the apple store it does have the coolest box. But I see the setup looks the same as it has for several years.


And it is just as the last guy said on editing.....sucks butt compared to other programs.
I think you can do everything in logic however not as easy as other programs.

When I sit down to work nowadays though I open ableton if I have wirters block.....
Reason is now a thing of the past....but better than ableton.
Cubase is king. With some virtual instruments and a microphone or two.


Of course a lot of what goes into the decisions as to what to get or what to use depends a little on what you are doing...and what other skills you have.


If you are using mostly microphones and regular effects than potools is cool. if you need software synths than logic is good. or reason or ableton. Logic is for kids and looks like it and runs like musical amateurs....however they do have some nice virtual instruments. However protools LE might not have the best synths out of the box you can buy them seperately. Cubase has average of all of the above, except an outstanding interface that kicks protools butt in looks and operation. It is people friendlier....but not by much. Logic is too canadian....LOL (all of my canadian friends seem to use logic.)


The most important thing of any DAW is learning to use it. Pretty much all of them are the same as far as you can get a great mix on any of them. they all also mix the exact same bit data and such. SO it is really just a cost thing......And virtual instruments get old every year so they always need to be updated and it seems that I always want another one about two weeks after I buy one. just like the old days with synths....they are so cool in the store.


I can see though how some people like logic though.....it does work....and I would definately say that as far as synths go it has great ones and that is one of the coolest things in DAW's is the ability to add a cool pad or bass or drum part quickly. Most of us have some vst synth so we don't exactly rely on our audio recording program to have good synths. But every once in a while I miss my logic synths. They look cool too. But they get old as does everything.


The biggest step up for home users is going to come in the next two years as we switch from 32 bit systems with 2-3 gigs of ram to the computer you will have/want in 2010 that will have at least 8 gig of RAM and be running on a 64 bit operating system......while they do exist all of the software is not written hence we all mostly use 32 bit programs. It is a good time to hold out with what you have since 3 gigs of RAM will be extinct in a year.

So the next company we will all be talking about is to be seen. Logic studio 8 is just the thing of the moment.


Protools and cubase will still be in great use and be updated and running next year when the big jump from 32 bit to 64 bit comes out. I shouldn't say coming out but I should say comes out strong and everything working with each other and of course lowered prices so we can all get a piece.

If I had protools LE I wouldn't switch unless you need the synths. at which case I would buy reason or ableton or komplete 5.

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