OK, I'll Admit It!!! I Need Help With Compression!!

[Catoogie]

I could really use some help here guys (and gals). I suppose theoretically I understand what compression and limiting does BUT when I try to use it it never does what I need it to do. For example.

I wanted to put some compression on a vocals track to even it out, bring up the quieter parts and tame the louder parts. I'll be damned if I had any luck. I ended up ridhing the fader and automating the moves.

I have an 002R and my compressors are the ones that came with Pro Tools. There's a Bomb Factory 1176 but on this track I was using the simple mono compressor.

Can someone here please give me a place to start with some settings?

[mjau]

Not to make you sound dumb, but are you sure you've got the plugin actually doing any serious compression? Seems to me that you'd hear an 1176 type compression on a vocal happen if it was digging in. Maybe try a fast attack time, high ratio, and fast release to get an idea of how the compressor behaves, then roll the settings around to get it where you want it for the vocal in question.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

try like 3:1, and medium attack and release...which would be i dunno, 30ms and 300ms respectively? set the threshold for like 6db reduction or so to start.

too many "s"s and whatnot getting through? speed up the attack
too 'boring' sounding? speed up the release
too aggressive sounding? slow down the attack and/or release (or lower the ratio/raise the threshold)

fwiw there's nothing wrong with good old fader riding....

[apropos of nothing]

Fader-riding > compression unless you want the artifacts of a compressor.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

and honestly, lots of times you do.

[darjama]

Fader-riding > compression unless you want the artifacts of a compressor.

+1

On a typical song, I usually both automate volume changes and use compression on the vocals.

[thecheat]

Well my dad always used to say Torque it down till it snaps and back off half a turn,

Which usually meant, Where did all the beer go?

which in this case means:

(Compress the ever loving crap out of the thing, and then back it off a bit.)

Your pro tools compressors are going to behave and give you that, "magic" compression sound in a much different way than an analog comp. Yes i know, a compressor is a compressor, but if that were really true the Behringer composer (a fine compressor for alot of things) would be in every rack ever and Manley and Universal Audio would be out of business. I've found, that for vocals, three things generally happen dynamics wise, Compressor, De-Esser, then limiter if I'm feeling lazy and its a pretty "i wanna sound like Nickelback" kinda band, more often than not, if you're doing a significant amount of compression, particularly on vocals, a De-Esser will save your life.

That being said, as a general rule for just about any effect i use, i tweak it till i love it and then back it off about 10-20% cause its very easy to fall in love with a sound, almost as easy as it is to hate every part of it untill it haunts you in your dreams.
As a general rule, for me anyway in vocals, i use a fast attack, fast release compressor, set with a pretty significant ratio, 7:1 or 15:1 in some cases, that usually lets the vocals even out and doesn't sound like they are being destroyed and flagrantly humiliated.

If you really want the track to sound exiting, and your strictly in the digital realm, using tape saturation or distortion plugins (subtly) might help you achieve that, they provide a bit of natural compression and can really give tracks an edge without being overtly gimmicky, I'm talking about the DaTube plugin in VST land, and Magneto, also in VST land. (Im not sure if there is anything comparable in your rig) They don't really distort unless you really crank them, they just add, i dunno, hair? girth? teeth? analogousness? Anyway, sometimes distortion gets confused for awesomeness, and we can take advantage of that.

I hope this helps at all, i actually proof read the thing and it makes sense to me, perhaps i need to elaborate with other compression but for the moment this will be fine.

Enjoi! good luck!

Chris

[fossiltooth]

Fader-riding > compression unless you want the artifacts of a compressor.

and honestly, lots of times you do.

[@?,*???&?]

I could really use some help here guys (and gals). I suppose theoretically I understand what compression and limiting does BUT when I try to use it it never does what I need it to do. For example.

I wanted to put some compression on a vocals track to even it out, bring up the quieter parts and tame the louder parts. I'll be damned if I had any luck. I ended up ridhing the fader and automating the moves.

I have an 002R and my compressors are the ones that came with Pro Tools. There's a Bomb Factory 1176 but on this track I was using the simple mono compressor.

Can someone here please give me a place to start with some settings?

It ain't about telling you what settings to use, it's about spending time dialing in awful sounds and learning from there.

Are you seeing/hearing the 'big picture' of the music you are working on?

Melody first? Pocket? Beat/rhythm/tempo? Harmony marching in sync with melody? Compression is about containment to bring all those things in line.

[@?,*???&?]

try like 3:1, and medium attack and release...which would be i dunno, 30ms and 300ms respectively? set the threshold for like 6db reduction or so to start.

too many "s"s and whatnot getting through? speed up the attack
too 'boring' sounding? speed up the release
too aggressive sounding? slow down the attack and/or release (or lower the ratio/raise the threshold)

fwiw there's nothing wrong with good old fader riding....

OMG? Again?

Ignore this. He has to be dumbing down his posts to be accepted by the kids of today. I think the kids of today are smarter than that.

[RefD]

try like 3:1, and medium attack and release...which would be i dunno, 30ms and 300ms respectively? set the threshold for like 6db reduction or so to start.

too many "s"s and whatnot getting through? speed up the attack
too 'boring' sounding? speed up the release
too aggressive sounding? slow down the attack and/or release (or lower the ratio/raise the threshold)

fwiw there's nothing wrong with good old fader riding....

OMG? Again?

Ignore this. He has to be dumbing down his posts to be accepted by the kids of today. I think the kids of today are smarter than that.

personal insult ahoy!

[MoreSpaceEcho]

OMG? Again?

Ignore this. He has to be dumbing down his posts to be accepted by the kids of today. I think the kids of today are smarter than that.

OH GOODY! please do tell the class what's the matter with my post jeff.

[Catoogie]

Are you seeing/hearing the 'big picture' of the music you are working on?

Melody first? Pocket? Beat/rhythm/tempo? Harmony marching in sync with melody? Compression is about containment to bring all those things in line.

Thanks for this, I couldn't agree with you more. Yeah I have the big picture, everything you mentioned is in order. I guess I'm just not hearing the compressor working or I'm expecting to be able to hear it more? I don't know, I've always been sorta confused by compression.

I love riding the fader, I just wnat to learn more aobut it and hoped I could get some starting setting suggestions so I can have a starting point and work from there.

[/quote]

[apropos of nothing]

Fader-riding > compression unless you want the artifacts of a compressor.

and honestly, lots of times you do.

To drag this thread back onto topic...

I like to compress at mix as little as possible. I feel like if I've been setting my gain stages properly, the compression should be inherent in the track. If something needs embiggifying (the artifact of a compressor) I'll push it through a compression stage, but I try and limit that (no pun intended) to one element or section per mix section so that elements don't compete, but groove and breathe. I personally like a mix with a lot of dynamics (to a certain extent), and that means less compression and more fader-riding.

OTOH, sometimes something does need more girth than the input signal had at origin. In that case, its a fine thing to whomp the shit out of it. And then back it off, so that you can't quite hear the shit being whomped out of it, but the embiggifying remains.

So pretty much what they said ^ but less of it.

ETA: You can always add compression at the mastering stage, especially if you provide sectioned stems, but you can't take away compression once its processed onto a track. Less of a hassle with nondestructive insert plugins and infinite undo than with tape, but something to keep in mind, I think.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

yeah. IME most singers tend to prefer the sound of their vocals with lots of embiggening. and i tend to prefer happy singers, so...