What db level do you monitor at?

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MoreSpaceEcho
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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:02 pm

B+W 805 signature series. why do you ask?

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Post by chris harris » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:11 pm

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:i monitor way louder for tracking than i do for mixing. pretty much always. you kinda have to i think....when the band comes in to hear a playback after deafening themselves with shitty headphones, i'm not going to make them listen to their song at the super quiet levels i often mix at.
Plus, it helps you hear performance issues during tracking. Tracking loud is common.
MoreSpaceEcho wrote:i also find that when i am first getting a mix together i have the levels much louder than i do later on in the process. once i have the basic mix framed i generally keep the monitors really quiet and try to get the mix working like that.
kind of the same thing. When I first start getting a mix together, I'm listening to make sure nothing weird slipped by. I'm listening for any strange noises or finicky channels on the analog board. I'm listening for how specific elements fit into the context of the song/mix... After that, I can bring the level back down and listen to the mix as a whole.

btw, I'm pretty sure that Jeff wants to make sweet love to you.

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Post by chris harris » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:13 pm

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:B+W 805 signature series. why do you ask?
because if you had home stereo speakers like he uses, you'd be able to crank out more 'legitimate' recordings. :roll:

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:26 pm

yeah i'm waiting for him to tell me how inferior the 805s are.

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Post by locosoundman » Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:31 pm

My average levels seems to be around 75 - 80 dB in a control room.

On-location it's a crap shoot.
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Post by @?,*???&? » Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:23 pm

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:B+W 805 signature series. why do you ask?
If it's nearfields only, volume is academic. A set of tuned mains with twin 15"s and a horn per side is going to deliver full, round, volume.

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Post by cgarges » Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:37 am

subatomic pieces wrote:
MoreSpaceEcho wrote:B+W 805 signature series. why do you ask?
because if you had home stereo speakers like he uses, you'd be able to crank out more 'legitimate' recordings. :roll:
Technically, the B&Ws ARE home stereo speakers! They just happen to be used at Abbey Road for nearfields (805s) and for mains (801s) in all the rooms (mastering suites included) except Studio Two.
@?,*???&? wrote:If it's nearfields only, volume is academic.
Hardly. Fletcher-Munsen curve applies to any size speaker within its specified frequency range and for the record, the B&W 805s have a ridiculously accurate extended low end for speakers their size. Mains they are not, but volume variations on those are hardly academic-only.
@?,*???&? wrote:A set of tuned mains with twin 15"s and a horn per side is going to deliver full, round, volume.
Simply having a set of mains isn't enough. I've been in plenty of control rooms with really terrible-sounding mains. Sure, I could hear SOMETHING at 25Hz, but the rest of the spectrum was so out-of-whack that I had no idea what was going on. The number of studios in which I've worked that had mains installed which were properly selected for the room design (or even better, where the room design was based around the mains to be installed) have been few and far-between. I worked in one of those rooms yesterday. Today, I did not.

In that majority of instances, I'd MUCH rather make my judgments (academic, artistic, cerebral, instinctual, or otherwise) on nearfields that I trust than on the mains that sound whacky, but give me noise at 15Hz.

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MoreSpaceEcho
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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:08 am

@?,*???&? wrote:If it's nearfields only, volume is academic. A set of tuned mains with twin 15"s and a horn per side is going to deliver full, round, volume.
i just knew my 805s wouldn't be good enough for you. do you have any tips on how precisely i should integrate 4 15" speakers and a pair of horns into my 17x12x13 control room? actually never mind that, a more interesting conversation would be for you to explain what you mean by "volume is academic." i'm terribly curious about that one.

and when you're done explaining that, you should head over to the mastering before and after thread, i posted an unmastered song that was wholly recorded and mixed by me. here's your chance to tell me how much i suck based on some of my actual work rather than just what i post here. get to it buddy!

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Post by @?,*???&? » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:09 pm

No, my point is that it's about having a 'varied' monitoring experience. The Fletcher-Munson effect exists regardless of monitoring devices.

What I was getting at is that small nearfields never fill the room like a set of mains. Someone mentioned playing it back loud for the band...sort of an oxymoron on nearfields.

I just came across a 2" speaker from an alarm system that I am going to box up for mono purposes. Should be intriguing as to what it will present with regard to bottom end- or lack thereof. Those upper harmonics should be really apparent though!

Woo-hoo!

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Post by japmn » Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:39 pm

Around 80 and then 60-65 and then 80 again.

I get a general mix at 80.
go to around 60-65 and balance it out.
then go back to see if it still sounds good loud.
if it does... I'm finished.

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Post by Pascal Garneau » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:19 pm

cjac9 wrote:is there anyway of acurately measuring an average level? Someone mentioned monitoring pink noise above....is there like a set procedure or anything? I know it doesn't have to be exact but why not get really close to that 85db range.
Yes. With an SPL meter and pink noise set to an established reference level. Each speaker gets measured individually.

It doesn't make much sense to say you're "85" or "79" or "72" unless there's a point of reference i.e. -20 dBFS=0VU=85 SPL. Otherwise, it's not even "academic" it's just meaningless. That is unless your only concern is avoiding hearing damage and you want to keep average material being played back below a specific volume. In that case, just hold up an SPL meter around listening position and measure it while playing back the song your mixing. Of course, doing it that way, it will vary greatly depending on the style of music.

The great benefit of having a calibrated monitoring system is that you get used to hearing certain elements at that level and so it's easier to make judgments about where, say for example, a snare drum should sit in a mix for a rock tune.

In the film world, the field in which I work (music is just a passionate hobby these days), calibration standards are strictly adhered to. A mix theater is calibrated to -20 dbFS pink noise=85 on a c-weighted SPL meter. Fortunately, the playback environment (a movie theater) is also set to the same level which allows for accurate mix translation. In the music world, we don't have that benefit of consistent playback systems which is why most folks check their mixes on several different systems at different levels.

Since most pop music is invariably squashed near as possible to 0 dBFS, using a reference level of -20 dBFS=0VU=85 SPL is flippin loud. That's 105 SPL on average!
I tend to mix music at -20=0VU=79 SPL (C-weighted) which yields for me a fairly wide dynamic range. I'm also not pumping it to 0 dBFS either. Of course it will get squashed in mastering, but that's another thread.
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Post by sears » Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:23 am

For tracking it all depends on whether the part is over- or underplayed and all that.

For mixing, I listen at a super-low level to get the balance right.

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Post by rydaken » Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:37 am

11.......
Cuz it's 1 louder!

Seriously, though. I'm fairly moderate w/ my listening levels. I've used the Realistic SPL meter and cal'ed to 85db, but personally don't consistently monitor at that volume. That is, when I have the choice. Some of my clients like the console all the way up for a good portion of the session (which, on an SSL is 11, love the humor of those Brits). I usually have earplugs in and those tend to be the writing sessions.

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Post by ericmedley » Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:28 am

I mix at about 65-80db. I also do not allow any talent or reps of talent to be at mixdown. I'm the only person there.

And another comment from above cussing B&Ws as being 'home speakers.' The original intended use of the Yamaha NS10M was a book shelf home speaker.

It's more important to study your monitors and know how they sound. I've heard of some crazy monitoring situations; from hit records being mixed on a couple marshall 4X12 stacks to Roland computer speakers. Some of us old guys remember the Aurotone 4" monitors. Some great mixes have come from a set of those.

I know lots of people who just love Genelecs. I can't stand them personally. It's all a matter of ear training, IMHO... know the speakers, know the room, know your weaknesses, know your hearing.
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