4-Track Cassette in the iPod age????

armanbohn · Post by **armanbohn** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:49 am

fossiltooth wrote:This thread isn't about the consumer medium. It's about the recording medium and process, and how that effects process and the end result.

Well, I have many concerns about the release I'm going to be doing. The whole collection spans from 4T sessions to studio work recorded at Avast and Studio Litho in Seattle. It runs this crazy gamut of three guys and the lowest budget gear to a real studio with label backing.

I'm not a mastering engineer. I am confident I can do a minimal mastering job to make the thing even out. I know there are people out there that could make this stuff shine.

Everyone I can play this stuff for has heard it before so I'm just here trying to get some an advice or an objective opinion.

I'm Painting Again · Post by **I'm Painting Again** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:46 am

fossiltooth wrote:
Beauty&Wonder wrote:
fossiltooth wrote:
"How it sounds" is in part a product of the medium. You can't really separate the two.
yeah "in part"..a not very significant part to the overall sound of the production..you can seperate them for the most part because the process trumps the medium..listen to Rumors on cassette vs hi how are you on cassette..they don't sound the same because they are both on a cassette..they sound different because of the process leading up to the cassette copies was very different..
Right....

...but now you're just defiantly agreeing with my original point!

The fact that Rumors wasn't recorded to cassette had a significant impact on the sound of the album. Likewise, the fact that "Hi How Are You" was recorded on a consumer cassette deck, had a big impact on the sound of that album. The impact of the recording medium is much greater than the impact of the consumer medium.

Of course it doesn't just come down to the overall "quality of the medium". All of the things that go along with these mediums are Part of the Process: Sonic fidelity, expectations, production aesthetic, limitations or advantages in tracking, mixing, processing, workflow, assumed quality of front-end gear etc., All of these factors most definitely contribute to "The sound of the album". With 4-track cassette recordings you get one set of crucial factors. With Rumors, you get another!

We're not talking about listening to music on cassette, vs mp3, vs CD, vs vinyl. This thread isn't about the consumer medium. It's about the recording medium and process, and how that effects process and the end result.

"Rumors still sounds great if you listen to it on cassette" isn't a valid argument in this context. That has nothing to do with 4-track cassette recordings!

I was never disagreeing with you dood..I was also never directly addressing the questions in the thread either..just like I said making a comment about process vs. medium which you know relates to what is going on here indirectly..

I think you just have an incorrect idea in your mind of what I was trying to communicate..I dunno..

Let's not take up any more space in this poor person's thread!

I'm Painting Again · Post by **I'm Painting Again** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:56 am

armanbohn wrote:
fossiltooth wrote:This thread isn't about the consumer medium. It's about the recording medium and process, and how that effects process and the end result.
Well, I have many concerns about the release I'm going to be doing. The whole collection spans from 4T sessions to studio work recorded at Avast and Studio Litho in Seattle. It runs this crazy gamut of three guys and the lowest budget gear to a real studio with label backing.

I'm not a mastering engineer. I am confident I can do a minimal mastering job to make the thing even out. I know there are people out there that could make this stuff shine.

Everyone I can play this stuff for has heard it before so I'm just here trying to get some an advice or an objective opinion.

I'm like one of those "artsy fartsy" types..and the way you describe all the contrasts in production value actually gives me a boner..for my personal tastes I would like to see those differences intensified rather than smoothed over..

and there lies the problem..taste..differing tastes..one person's Shaggs is another peerson's Shaggs..know what I mean?

there are no real objective opinions..

you could look at it as a business and go for what your target audience expects or you could try to please the more "out there" people by making it super crazy..or you could just do what makes you happy too..either path won't be wrong..just have to figure out what your goals and priorities are I guess..

armanbohn · Post by **armanbohn** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:06 pm

One of the songs done on 4T was eventually re-recorded at Litho some years later as the band came full circle and ended. Those 2 tracks will kind tie together the whole thing.

The "quality" of the disc will change in a strange bell curve as the disc plays on...

I'm Painting Again · Post by **I'm Painting Again** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:20 pm

to me that seems really interesting and cool..

armanbohn · Post by **armanbohn** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:57 pm

Beauty&Wonder:

PM me if you want to hear one of the raw off the DAT 4T cuts from 1996.

Like I said above, I don't want to post a link directly yet until I get things ironed out with the band.

lharless · Post by **lharless** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:51 am

in 1996, I was using Cakewalk v3 (no audio recording) for the midi sequencing of drum machine parts and keyboard parts. I had an Alesis QS.6 and an SR-16, controlled by Cakewalk, running into a Tascam 4-track, and I'd overdub guitar, bass and vocal parts. We'd mix down onto an Onkyo cassete tape deck with no compression effects and nothing other than the Quadraverb and the Midiverb for slight room sounds. It worked nicely. You had to commit to your verbs and anything else you printed.

In fact, back in 1994, my band "Kate's Diary" from Blacksburg Virginia (Va. Tech) had a "live" rehearsal recording tracked in the common room of an off campus apartment over the course of a few days, on a very nice (for the time) ramsa board, through all kinds of crazy 90's outboard, all channels fed through like four aux channels into a dinky 4 track (vocals and snare had their own channel). I love the sound of these recordings. They have a very "period specific" tone. It's a vintage that you can identify immediately. I wish I could load some of these sessions up in logic and screw around with them, just for fun, but those days are long gone and I'm sure that the tapes are long gone. At our age, there was no sense of "future" in our minds back then.

I'm Painting Again · Post by **I'm Painting Again** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:15 am

armanbohn wrote:Beauty&Wonder:

PM me if you want to hear one of the raw off the DAT 4T cuts from 1996.

Like I said above, I don't want to post a link directly yet until I get things ironed out with the band.

I'd gladly give it a listen..

armanbohn · Post by **armanbohn** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:59 am

Sent you a pm with a link.

fossiltooth · Post by **fossiltooth** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:01 pm

I just realized I've been helping take up space in this thread without giving a straight answer to your original question. So here it is:

if anyone really loves your music, there will be some kind of market for you 4 track recordings, even if they actually "sound bad".

If you want to send me a link I can tell you if I think they "sound quality" is good enough for me to spend my consumer dollars on...

4 track cassette recording quality is of no consequence to me in two cases:

1) It's the debut of a really awesome, but extremely poor group of young musicians.
2) It's unreleased demos or early recordings of an artist I love.

If your music meets either of these criteria, the consumer in me would happily shell out a few bucks!

I think most people would agree.

armanbohn · Post by **armanbohn** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:42 pm

fossiltooth:

pm sent.

Brett Siler · Post by **Brett Siler** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:57 pm

Rerecord it straight to iPod. Then try and extract with their damn DRM.

armanbohn · Post by **armanbohn** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:09 pm

I think the above sums it up......

Not quite what I'm goin' for in the thread but perfectly applicable at the same time!

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4-Track Cassette in the iPod age????

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