Strat bridges impact on tone?

[RefD]

I wish I understood half of this thread. Any one feeling kind enough to explain to me (or point me to good info about) springs and blocks?

I'm pretty guitar dumb. I just play the thing.

Hilariously labelled Stratocaster:


Behind that rectangular plastic plate on the back:


tighten the two screws on the bracket (or "claw") until the bridge plate rests firmly against the top of the body at all times.

i am able to do this with only 3 springs but you may need 4 or 5 if you're using heavy strings.

[JdJ]

I wish I understood half of this thread. Any one feeling kind enough to explain to me (or point me to good info about) springs and blocks?

I'm pretty guitar dumb. I just play the thing.

"Blocking" often times refers to the tremolo "block" being wedged down with a piece of wood so it effect it is a fixed bridge.

I have a strat that has the claw tightened down with no wood block- works great, sounds great too.

-J

[Ian]

My main guitar is an old strat and I never use the trem, but after giving "blocking" a try I realised I like the sound the springs give(sublte yes, but it does add something). I use just three springs with the clamp screwed in all the way.

The one thing I did that made all the difference in the world was to replace the trem block with a Callaham block. Cost about $40(back 6-7 years ago) and I noticed that the sound of the wound E and A strings improved as you play further up the neck.

[calaverasgrandes]

I been playing guitaqr and bass for uh, 26 years? I dont know a long time. Never heard a nut referred to as a "headnut". Does this imply that the bridge is a bridgenut? horsefeathers.
When I first saw this topic Ithough it was gonna be another one of those brass vs steel vs aluminum vs graphite flame wars.

ps. anybody ever try one of those giant single spring in a tube things?

[syrupcore]

thanks refd and jdj.

[RefD]

Never heard a nut referred to as a "headnut".

that's why i called it a "Hilariously labelled Stratocaster".

When I first saw this topic Ithough it was gonna be another one of those brass vs steel vs aluminum vs graphite flame wars.

i tried brass on a Tele back in the 80s and it was a bad idea.

i later tried graphite and it was pointless.

so bone or tusq for me...preferably bone.

anybody ever try one of those giant single spring in a tube things?

the "Trem-Setter" is designed for floating trems with 2 studs, like the G&L trem or the Floyd Rose or that thing Fender flirted with in the 90s...which i think still appears on one variation of their Stratocaster.

pretty useless with a normal Strat wang bar, even set up to be semi-floating.

[calaverasgrandes]

I like brass on guitars and some basses. I hate to admit it but I think I like aluminum tone wise the best for bridge saddles. Stainless steel after that. On nuts, Never really thought about it much. I mostly just play frets.

[inverseroom]

Guys, guys...has the world gone mad? The middle of page two and nobody has said the magic word?

CALLAHAM

www.callahamguitars.com

BUY THEIR REPLACEMENT STRAT BRIGHT RIGHT NOW. And don't block the trem, just don't use it. I have Callahams in several guitars...they are THE BEST bridges, saddles, and blocks money can buy, and they make a HUGE difference in tone and sustain. They are BEAUTIFUL pieces of work.

[inverseroom]

Aha! I missed it, Ian said Callaham. +1 on Ian.

Seriously. Callaham. Really.

[roscoenyc]

Aha! I missed it, Ian said Callaham. +1 on Ian.

Seriously. Callaham. Really.

I've got their bridges on all of my teles.
bang zoom oh my goodness.
loud as hell unplugged
(and that is the test)

[Vogon]

I wish I understood half of this thread. Any one feeling kind enough to explain to me (or point me to good info about) springs and blocks?

One can put up to 5 springs "on" a fender (Vintage) vibrato. With the "Claw" set to put maximum tension on the springs, the plate of the vib will settle on the surface of the guitar body, and thereby transmit string vibration into the body over it's whole surface area. When the arm is not depressed, the bridge will act and sound more like a fixed bridge. As the string tension required to bring the guitar into tune is not enough to pull the bridge off the body, a string break (lessening tension further) will not send the whole thing out-of-tune.

With fewer springs and less spring tension, the back of the vibrato top-plate will tend to float off the body and only the front lip of the plate (under the 6 anchor screws in front of the saddles) will contact the body:
This will give a less full tone. String bending will easier as the plate will pull forward "slackening " the non-bent strings. If a string is broken the guitar will go out of tune as the plate will snap back onto the body.
It's known as a "floating" bridge - when the guitar is tuned, the tension of the strings is compensated for by the tension of the bridge - it sits at an "equilibrium" point. It's also the way the modern "2-Stud" vibratos including floyds, wilki's etc operate.

The block has raised some debate. The vintage Fenders used mild steel, and the 70's fenders (and cheaper copies) used Mazak, a marketting-name for zinc based pot-metal. Recently some people have been fitting cold-pressed steel blocks claiming a better tone and sustain.
As usual, this is subjective, and Mazak does have it's fans. One man's increased attack and treble is another man's icepick-in-the-ear... And, those old greats didn't seem to mind the early materials.
I put a callaham on one strat, replacing Mazak and the differences were very subtle, though some of this could have been the guitar itself - which sounded good to start with. (I know, if it ain't broke...).

[Vogon]

I like brass on guitars and some basses. I hate to admit it but I think I like aluminum tone wise the best for bridge saddles.

Yes, the Gibson one-piece "Stop-Tailpiece" bridges were made of an aluminium *alloy*, used only two studs, had no break-angle over the saddle, weren't strung through the body (can't think of an elegant phrase for that!) and are regarded by some as the most solid-sounding fixed bridge design ever...
Which goes against most people's logic... That something as hard and dense as steel should be less effective.
Then you have the graphtec type saddles, which are basically plastic, by many accounts sounding as good as metals.
Go figure...

[Kindly Killer]

What are you goals for this guitar? If you want it to sound like a strat, google "Scott Henderson strat setup" - he's a legendary player and strat addict, and he does a Q&A on some forum about his gear. He "gets" strats in a way that usually only very old techs do. I haven't seen any of that kind of info in this thread.

If you want to experiment, let me give you some advice: try changing one part at a time, and include all the parts that have a big impact on sound. The first of these would be the neck; it's probably the most important timbral factor on a solid electric guitar. Next is saddles, then pickups. After that is the neck join (type of fastener, type of joint), then the rest of the bridge assembly. I'm talking order of significance in the overall sound of the instrument.

I wouldn't spend a lot of time asking/wondering what XYZ combination is going to sound like. Have you ever noticed that every guitar manufacturer, from Samick to Linda Manzer, has a sort of narrow range of materials and construction techniques they work with? It's not that a skilled luthier/factory has trouble acquiring or machining aluminum or cocobolo or whatever, it's that it is hard to predict what something is going to sound like. And once you find a winning combination, it is best to just stick with it; that's why so many people are hot to get info on vintage strat construction - it is a good recipe, so why not just go by that recipe?

For pickups, any time you ask, "what pickups should I buy" - even without stating any criteria - every last person will say their favorite pickup in their favorite guitar of the 10-20 they've ever owned; free advice is worth every penny. Instead, call up a maker, e.g. Fralin or a local luthier where you live, and tell him what you are looking for, and they will make you exactly what you want, for not much more than buying a mass produced clunker at Guitar Center.

Regarding brand name bridges, the only one that I've seen that offers any significant improvement over the plain old vintage steel formula is Wilkinson; they have a strat bridge that is in all respects vintage except that it has a push-in arm. The steel strat bridge is definitely one of those "aint busted" designs; most companies that try to improve the design just screw it up - e.g. Callaham uses a saddle with a slot that it too long, so the string misses the flat part of the saddle. The best deal on a real, vintage strat bridge is the Guitar Fetish eBay Store. Those bridges are the real deal, vintage steel, and they are like $25 and change.

If you are totally unhappy with the guitar the way it sounds now, the best thing you can do is just go hunting for another guitar. If you are keeping it for sentimental reasons, keep it just the way it is - that will be more special to you, anyway, leaving it all hacked to hell like you had it when you were 12. Guitars come and go. You will know it when you find your first keeper.

[Kindly Killer]

I guess my main question is: is there a huge tonal impact of just having a standard strat temelo bridge (unblocked) compared to a non-tremelo bridge? My general thoughts are that a non-tremelo would likely stay in tune more (not a huge concern to be fair) and perhaps provide better sustain and a fuller tone. But it's just a huge guess.

Sorry - I just realized after that whole thing I didn't even address your main question.

The general formula is that a harder, denser bridge [as a whole] makes the sound brighter, which for solid electric guitar is effectively the opposite of fuller. One of the fullest sounding solid electrics is the LP Jr, which has a soft, light aluminum bridge. Switch that to a soft rosewood bridge and it is really too full to use in a rock ensemble.

[calaverasgrandes]

interesting. I wonder where brass falls in the range of hardness? I know brass sounds awful bright to me. And compared to most metals is somewhat soft. Though I suppose hardness of brass depends on what your ratio of elements are. What is it copper, zinc and sometimes tin or aluminum?