another what to charge thread

[dungeonsound615]

Well after taking over a year off from recording, i know what was i thinking. I realized music and recording are what I really love. Before this hiatus from recording i was running a rather small one room studio out of my basement and getting at best 10 bands in a year charging 20 dollars an hour.

Right now i want to seriously get back into this. I am considering upgrading from my yamahaAW4416 to a software based recording setup. I have a decent selection of mics and the sytek pre's a mp20 and the rnp preamps.

Im considering raising my prices once i get the studio up and running again.

what you think is a good going rate i'm thinking 30 at my highest but im really not sure whats a decent rate to charge.

thanks

[rwc]

I'm not that far into this compared to most on this forum. I pay my (very)reasonable rent solely from what I charge but I'm sure others who have been recording for 12x as long as me will have some more valuable input on how to charge.

When I decided to raise my rates I stopped doing hourly. I'd ask what the band was thinking of doing, give a time frame. like last week this band leader called and said he wanted to give out a CD at an upcoming show of what they were doing, and wanted to book some time one night to record them.

Bands who ask to do this are typically looking for a 5-6 hour time block and are expecting a demo, not a record, if they're competant. this one was, and knew doing what resulted in six songs over four hours was most certainly a demo. so I answered, "let's say 5-9 or 5-10, five or six songs, $130".

not charging hourly seems to be key. booking blocks give or take an hour, for a certain amount of money seems to work better. I wound up doing 4 hours for $130 + a $10 tip which amounted to $35/hr, but had I said $35/hr over the phone, I don't think it would have been as attractive as me giving a song & time block with an overall dollar value of how much it would cost.

I think it makes me look more invested in the project, but more imporantly, keeps the band from thinking about it from an hourly perspective. Putting a cap on the money spent really seems to help seal the deal. I've found getting clients easier when I mention an amount of money, and am clear with what the intention of the session is compared to giving an hourly rate and that's it.

I'd say go with your gut and think of how well equipt you are to do the project at hand, how much time it will take, how fun you think it'll be, and go from there. If it's only two hours of time someone wants for something you may not like, you may want to have an hourly rate higher than a 12 hour project with a group you really like, that doesn't have that much dough.

Also think in terms of the kind of client. I feel dirty saying it but some people simply give off that they have way more in terms of budget and when I run into those I charge accordingly. The 21 year old pop/rock songwriter/vocalist with no money and a cool tune, vs a singer with a manager, studio musicians..

[xonlocust]

a lot of it is supply and demand - and your market place. check out the bands you'd want to be recording. figure out where they record now. figure out how much that place charges. figure out what that place has that you do or don't have. are you better, or not as good as that place? this should make things a little easier to figure out.

i also don't think a lot of bands in the cheaper marketplace know/give a shit about gear so much (as far as sytek/rnp/mics etc - us nerds here certainly do, but the bands not so much generally) - they will probably get the difference btw DAW or tape or hard disc. i'd advise getting some DAW so at least your sessions can play with the rest of the world. if it's not PT, you can tell them "i use X - it does all the same stuff as PT" (which is what i say about DP when asked)

there are a lot of great studios in town and regionally - figure out where you sit in the pecking order. but at the end of the day it's not really the price i think, but the relationships with bands that drive the work. and perhaps working with bands who are active and do things like play shows and tell thier friends about you, or play in other bands as well.

[JGriffin]

Mike, I tend to agree with Xon--you've seen Chicago's music Craigslist, you know there are $20/hr studios on up to $400/hr studios. Where do you sit in that continuum given your gear, experience and track record?

[@?,*???&?]

Two things will determine what you can charge appropriately:

1. Your discography

2. Funkiness of space. There is definitely a perceived 'legitimacy' to have a 'real' console and I'm not talking Mackie here. Project studios, which is what a DAW equates to is in the $25 to $35 per hour realm. It can't be more because there are other studios in your area with a 'real' console charging slightly more.

[rwc]

I remember three months ago I had this short cuban jazz musician walk in for a showing and I sat her down in the room I work in and asked what kind of music she was doing, then opened a bunch of sessions in logic with music I had recorded.

A few days later she called me back and said she'd want to work with me over the other places she was visiting that week, charging what I was, with LA2As and little API consoles and shit.. I asked her why, she said "they showed me gear and you played me music"

don't discount the impact a short demo can have on your ability to charge good money, especially if they had a bad experience with another studio. this dump in long island recorded something for one client of mine, with such a loud clicking noise on a piano track that it clipped the final bounce! after that it was easy breezy to charge almost as much as this full equipt place, after playing the guy some samples from his genre of piano/vocal based jazz.

[joninc]

this is an interesting thread - i have been doing this full time for about 6 or 7 years now and have done lots of little incremental raises and changes from starting at weekends learning how to do this in my basement with adats and minimal gear for $10 and hour to $300 - $400 a day with lots of nicer gear, a still small but better room, lots of interesting instruments (keys, guitars, fx, organs etc...) a lot more experience and confidence.

i think it's really all about what you can bring to the table.

are you primarily engineering? are you an awesome engineer?

are you a producer? do you have lots of experience coaching great performances? do you hear things in your head that will enhance the song?

can you play any instruments or sing? can you arrange? can you mix? can you master? are you also a songwriter?

it's key to find out what your selling point is. then you can evaluate what that is worth relative to other similar producers/engineers/studios etc....

gear is part of the picture but i think it's a smaller piece than a lot of people think. i have really not had THAT many discussions about my gear with interested artists. they may look at my website but for the most part it has WAY more to do with my work and my reputation.

DO LOTS OF WORK. build interest and demand in what you offer. raise your prices accordingly when demand increases.

make your space comfortable - collect some fun instruments - get into it - dig in and be passionate and people will start to recognize it.

have fun!!

[joninc]

oops!

i forgot to add - that i totally agree with getting away from hourly rates. it's not an hourly job - it's a day job. nothing gets done in an hour - base it on a day rate. give incentives for longer term booking. a buddy of mine will throw in saturday if you book mon-fri.

it's much less stressful doing day rates than hourly - takes a lot of the headache out of each session.

[@?,*???&?]

oops!

i forgot to add - that i totally agree with getting away from hourly rates. it's not an hourly job - it's a day job. nothing gets done in an hour - base it on a day rate. give incentives for longer term booking. a buddy of mine will throw in saturday if you book mon-fri.

it's much less stressful doing day rates than hourly - takes a lot of the headache out of each session.

Uh-oh, don't let Garges know this...he's strictly hourly.

I am with you though, better music happens when the meter is not running. One either 'supports the arts' and 'strives to make great art' or not.

[fossiltooth]

Two things will determine what you can charge appropriately:

1. Your discography

2. Funkiness of space. There is definitely a perceived 'legitimacy' to have a 'real' console and I'm not talking Mackie here. Project studios, which is what a DAW equates to is in the $25 to $35 per hour realm. It can't be more because there are other studios in your area with a 'real' console charging slightly more.

Jeff, you're in rare form on this post!

I completely agree with both of your points.

I know you have the awesome within you... Harness it!

The simple use of 'quotation' fingers really helps you seem like you're not trying to be condescending. I like the new JR. Awesome. Keep it up!

[@?,*???&?]

Two things will determine what you can charge appropriately:

1. Your discography

2. Funkiness of space. There is definitely a perceived 'legitimacy' to have a 'real' console and I'm not talking Mackie here. Project studios, which is what a DAW equates to is in the $25 to $35 per hour realm. It can't be more because there are other studios in your area with a 'real' console charging slightly more.

Jeff, you're in rare form on this post!

I completely agree with both of your points.

I know you have the awesome within you... Harness it!

The simple use of 'quotation' fingers really helps you seem like you're not trying to be condescending. I like the new JR. Awesome. Keep it up!

I have no idea what you're talking about. You need to remove the sensitive e-mail/messageboard goggles and cut through to the pragmatic and practical! Life's too short.

lol

[cgarges]

Uh-oh, don't let Garges know this...he's strictly hourly.

I am SO wishing this was true right now.

At least I had mostly cool people on this session today. It was just a LONG day.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[rwc]

Uh-oh, don't let Garges know this...he's strictly hourly.

I am SO wishing this was true right now.

At least I had mostly cool people on this session today. It was just a LONG day.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

This seems to be the case when people don't go hourly. A per session/song rate seems to put the engineer/musician at the mercy of the producer, where hourly forces them to settle and make decisions quicker.

There was a really great, experienced, professional guitar player who worked here on a session that wasn't mine. he was doing it as a favor for something crazy like "$80 for the whole session, it shouldn't take long", but he wound up being there for some crazy shit like ten hours. He walked out at the end. He got his money in the mail but it still seems to've left a lasting impression on me over how hourly rates command respect.

Most techs do it this way as well. People don't wait around when you say "do you have a 20 microfarad cap" or whatever when you're charging $75/hr.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

Two things will determine what you can charge appropriately:

1. Your discography

2. Funkiness of space. There is definitely a perceived 'legitimacy' to have a 'real' console and I'm not talking Mackie here. Project studios, which is what a DAW equates to is in the $25 to $35 per hour realm. It can't be more because there are other studios in your area with a 'real' console charging slightly more.

Jeff, you're in rare form on this post!

I completely agree with both of your points.

I know you have the awesome within you... Harness it!

The simple use of 'quotation' fingers really helps you seem like you're not trying to be condescending. I like the new JR. Awesome. Keep it up!

I have no idea what you're talking about. You need to remove the sensitive e-mail/messageboard goggles and cut through to the pragmatic and practical! Life's too short.

lol

some classic TOMB right here.

[roscoenyc]

95% of the time I'm doing a day rate and that has worked out well for me.