How to track down old or obscure spoken samples? Legality?

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T-rex
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How to track down old or obscure spoken samples? Legality?

Post by T-rex » Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:28 pm

We are getting ready to release an album and there are a few samples we really want to use. One is recordings off of a 50's radio show and the other is off of an instructional album for the blind also from the early 50's. I would have no idea how to obtain rights for these? Do we need to? By their nature I would think they wre probably public domain. They aren't music just some words as an intro and another as an outro.


I want to do the right thing. I also want to stay legal. I also want to use the samples?

Any advice appreciated!
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Post by JGriffin » Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:46 pm

The radio show is, more than likely, owned by someone. I worked for a guy in the '90s whose entire business was buying up the rights to old radio programs. What show is it?


For the blind record, you can probably find some sort of contact info on the record sleeve. From there, write letters and scour the internet for more information.
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Re: How to track down old or obscure spoken samples? Legalit

Post by summersleep » Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:52 pm

T-rex wrote:We are getting ready to release an album and there are a few samples we really want to use. One is recordings off of a 50's radio show and the other is off of an instructional album for the blind also from the early 50's. I would have no idea how to obtain rights for these? Do we need to? By their nature I would think they wre probably public domain. They aren't music just some words as an intro and another as an outro.


I want to do the right thing. I also want to stay legal. I also want to use the samples?

Any advice appreciated!
I'm not giving you legal advice here, just some things to consider...

"Public domain" status is based on the passing of a statutorily-set period of time after which an otherwise valid copyright no longer applies. This period of time varies greatly in different jurisdictions (and in different eras), and, in some cases, copyright to the a certain work may have been renewed notwithstanding the passing of the statutory period of time.

In this case, I would recommend that you do not use the samples without getting clearance. By clearance, I mean either direct permission from the copyright holder (assuming a valid copyright exists), or, on the other hand, clearance by way of a legal opinion from an attorney who, after researching these particular clips, has determined that no valid copyright currently exists.

Keep in mind that while the relative obscurity of a sample may make the risk (to you and the band) of unauthorized use low, it is no guaranty that you're not infringing on someone else's intellectual property, and it is no defense to any claims brought based on such infringement.

I suggest starting with the material itself and seeing if you can find out who owns the record label, for example, and who the "performer" is, etc. If the record label was bought up in some mega deal twenty or forty years ago, the recording may now be the property of a major label. Or not.

Another option, while certainly not as appealing as using the original, is to write your own distinct variation of the content of the samples and record someone reading it anew...and trash it up to make it sound old fashioned.

That's just my two cents.

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Post by jckinnick » Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:50 pm

Ive always wondered what that "this is a journey" was from?

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Post by T-rex » Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:44 pm

well I think we may be in luck, our singer dug out the original records he taped the samples from a few years ago. I was wrong on the sources. One is from a religious ventriloquist record that was put out independently and shows no copyright on it. There is no record label listed, just some very vague info and a killer picture of a girl in 1950's makeup holding a dummy. Wow. Anyway it has no copyright of any kind, no info I can see at all. Probably came out in about the same 500 disc run we are going to do, except in 1950.

The radio show is on vinyl and called sound on film from around 1972? It's a discussion of A Clockwork Orange and also has no copyright or info either. It actually says For Use Anytime but I am guessing that was for the radio station that the record was sent to? Anyway, there is no info on this either and googeling has yeilded no results for the show. I have to get the actual album from Jimmy to see if I can google the radio station but he's convinced it's no longer around.

I truly don't think either of these are copyrighted, although I would like to contact someone for permission at least.
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Post by T-rex » Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:53 pm

Also, thanks summersleep for the not legal advice! I never would have thought about having an attorney research the copyrights.
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Post by aitikin » Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:52 pm

T-rex wrote:...shows no copyright on it. There is no record label listed, just some very vague info...I truly don't think either of these are copyrighted, although I would like to contact someone for permission at least...
Definitely do everything you can to make sure that it's clear. IANAL, but from my understanding of copyright law, something is copyright-en when it's created. As soon as my pen goes to paper, I have a copyright on what I'm writing.

That being said, not filing copyright with the copyright office means I don't get the privilege of getting all the money I could get if someone steals my work, so if there isn't copyright on any of it, you can feel free to use it, but know that they would, presuming they still have rights over it (and actually care), be able to sue you to get you to stop using the sample, or to pay royalties on it.

Again, IANAL, so I don't know if this is really true or not.
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Post by markmeat » Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:52 am

aitikin wrote:Definitely do everything you can to make sure that it's clear. IANAL, but from my understanding of copyright law, something is copyright-en when it's created. As soon as my pen goes to paper, I have a copyright on what I'm writing.
Not at all... you HAVE to file to be 100% legal... and the old mail it to yourself and don't open it until you need to fight about it isn't legal either... FILE THE PAPERS.

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Post by kdarr » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:06 am

markmeat wrote:
aitikin wrote:Definitely do everything you can to make sure that it's clear. IANAL, but from my understanding of copyright law, something is copyright-en when it's created. As soon as my pen goes to paper, I have a copyright on what I'm writing.
Not at all... you HAVE to file to be 100% legal... and the old mail it to yourself and don't open it until you need to fight about it isn't legal either... FILE THE PAPERS.

MEAT
This is not entirely true. Copyright is yours as soon as you make a fixed copy of the work, be it in writing, recorded media, etc. 100% legal, and 100% copyrighted no matter what.

However - if there is a DISPUTE about copyright, you can't even go to court until you file with the Library of Congress. You could even do it AFTER the dispute has started, but obviously, the earlier you do file, the easier it is to prove that your work was first. Thus providing you with a much stronger case.

Anyway, it's worth doing, last time I filed it was only $45.00 for each work or collection of works. It's not unlike filing income tax.

And then there's the whole Creative Commons alternative...

[<|>]

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Post by markmeat » Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:06 pm

I guess the dispute (and prtection from thives) was the angle I was headed in... sure as soon as it's down on tape it's yours, but try to prove it w/o that lil' piece of paper...

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