thinking about switching platforms

Randy · Post by **Randy** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:29 pm

With the exception of a Commodore Vic 20, every computer I have owned has been a Macintosh. I use Macs at work and think of them as incredibly useful and Fisher-Price-simple to use. I recently bought a Laptop with Vista on it because I couldn't afford to replace my iBook. I was shocked and awed at how easy it is to use and I haven't been overrun by viruses.

Cut to the present where my first-generation G4 desktop is starting to get cranky. I have a Motu 324 card and a PowerCore card in it, which I don't want to replace. Macs no longer have a PCI bus. Now I could drop $3000 on a new computer, another $295 to upgrade my MOTU card, another $750 to upgrade the PowerCore to PCIx; or drop $500 on a Dell and be done with it.

Has anyone else here tried this and crashed in flames? Am I nuts to be thinking of this?

;ivlunsdystf · Post by **;ivlunsdystf** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:35 pm

Mac has driven me ape whenever I've tried to commit to it. Everything is hidden behind a weird Steve Jobs smokescreen.

I think it's great if you are well-versed in Unix commands, or if you really just want to surf the internet web and check your email, but for anything more involved it's just a big PITA.

For DIY types I think Windows has a lot to offer - an endless array of user-written apps to solve every little problem you can think of, and cheap hardware readily available at any time on Craigslist. Just look at plugins on kvr as an example. For every one mac free plugin there are ten windows plugins.

Vista sucks though. Get XP or even run 2000 if you can get away with it.

joel hamilton · Post by **joel hamilton** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:36 pm

Tatertot wrote: For DIY types I think Windows has a lot to offer - an endless array of user-written apps to solve every little problem you can think of...

I dont have any problems and cant really think of any, and have been using mac since the Apple II.

I love the nice design, and the elegant implementation of hardware/software.
I also have a dot mac account, which works seamlessly with an iphone and a laptop and a desktop all being automatically sync'd up while I sleep... erything backed up to an offsite iDisk... totally great. works great, makes me glad I have the system I have. Getting an appleTV setup soon, and a time capsule so my wife's laptop is automatically backed up...

Love mac. Just my opinion. I know plenty of people that get tons of amazing functionality of of PC systems, but none of them work as easily as my setup with dotmac and three machines... none of them.

T-rex · Post by **T-rex** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:28 pm

While I would love to go Mac, for the money I have been super happy with my Dell. AND, you can still get XP on dell machines I believe. I don't have any experience with Vista, but I have been running XP for years with Cubase and a million other aps and plugs, free plugs etc and it has been rock solid and easy to optimize for audio.

I think it really matters more with your application etc. And if I remember the 324 card form Motu doesn't play nice with PC's but the 424 card does. I can't remember for sure but something to look into.

joninc · Post by **joninc** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:55 pm

my vote for PC. quad core with XP. zoom.....

i just don't get why macs are so much more expensive. they are not rock solid either - my bro has a new macbook pro - 2 internal HD failures in less than 12 months!! ipods are made to be thrown out and replaced every 2 years. this is not a company i want to support!

let's face it - i think it has a lot to do with fashion and esthetics - they look cool. they are so smooth and futuristic. they are for cool kids - you know who you are

ok - some of the apps are cool and well integrated - but like it was stated above. we are talking about computers for RECORDING not making photo albums or surfing the net....

get a pc !

freakmech · Post by **freakmech** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:45 pm

I loved my Sony Viao running XP for a long time. It had lots of issues, especially when installing new software or hardware. It would take days to get everything to sync up again. But alas, it served me well. Then one day i lost about 5 months of work and while trying to recover it ALL my wares went bezerk and nothing worked right. I threw my PC out of my studio window, 2nd story, literally threw it into some bushes. Then i cried for a few minutes.

I now use a Macbook Pro.

Moral of the story, PC's are nice cus you can really tweak them to get performance for recording. But then you deal with a lot of residual problems. If your PC is going to be DEDICATED to recording, then i dont see a problem with them. BUT if you are going to use it for other things as well, get a Mac. Ive spent many hours troubleshooting my PC, ive yet to have any real issues with my Mac. Of course, i havent yet pushed my Mac the way i bullied my PC yet. But Mac has been nice for 1+ years.

Dedicated PC, or multitask mac, you decide.

Damn i need to recover my PC HD one day....

Cellotron · Post by **Cellotron** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:56 pm

My desire in a DAW is to run applications - not OS's. SO - I don't give a rat's @ss whether I am using a Windows, Mac or Linux box as long as the OS is invisible to me and just does necessary tasks like file management correctly when I need it to - and as long as the apps I use on it are stable and function the way I like them to. I've built my own PC DAW's for the past 12 years now - but have used Macs along the way as well.

My current DAW's run on "ancient" Windows 2000 - and it's just this year that I finally have found a few reasons to make my next box run on the soon to be discontinued XP.

What I can say is - the direction of MS is terrible for DAW users in that their latest OS (Vista) is a complete bloated dog that needs to be put down (and MS have announced they are trying to speed up its replacement). But - got to say that DAW users who think Apple is their savior are also fooling themselves as well.

Mainly to me you just need to find out the tasks you need to do and the best ways to do them.

Some examples from the world of mastering: if you need to do CD error checking the only decent solutions out there all run on Windows. But if you need to create a DDPi then the only good cheap solutions all run on Mac. SO - sometimes its good to have both around. The Mac Intel boxes offer running both OS's off of one box - but frankly it's really easy and cheap to build customized PC DAW's that have some real zip to them. Just keep Vista well away from them!

Anyway - I'm really hoping that ReactOS - http://www.reactos.org - eventually gets off the ground - including full audio support. Unfortunately this looks this will happen later than sooner right now.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

rwc · Post by **rwc** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:38 am

I love PCs but for god sakes, to buy a dell is to get the bottom of the barrel.

Make it yourself! Don't cheap out on every component that makes a good recording computer.

rwc · Post by **rwc** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:00 am

joninc wrote: ipods are made to be thrown out and replaced every 2 years.

I'm no fan of macs but this can be said for almost any DAP. Most cowon stuff has terrible solder joints on the headphone jack. They screw you and don't fix it for free even if it's two weeks old, the cost of repair winds up being $30 less than a used one on ebay.

the rio karma which was known for having gapless playback/flac/vorbis/instantload times due to so smart memory management had a bad hitachi HD and also no internal shock mounting.

None of this shit is made to last. iPods included, but not specifically.

Jay Reynolds · Post by **Jay Reynolds** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:55 am

joninc wrote: i just don't get why macs are so much more expensive. they are not rock solid either - my bro has a new macbook pro - 2 internal HD failures in less than 12 months!! ipods are made to be thrown out and replaced every 2 years. this is not a company i want to support!

I use both. I've built dedicated PC DAW's from the ground up and am currently using a refurbished G5 Dual 1.8. If you are going to use a PC, you have to build it from scratch. Do not use a pre-built system. And that brings us to the perception that Macs are "more expensive". Yes, looking at the systems part-for-part, apple's product costs more. But the question you have to ask yourself is, "How much is my time worth?" If you build PC's all the time, it should take you about 3-5 hours to research, order, assemble, and load your OS and apps onto your new PC. And that is assuming that you've installed the right drivers in the right order. One mistake and you can add 2 hours to that time frame. Got the wrong video card? Or a defective motherboard like the one that I got on my second-to-last DAW build? Add a week+ of downtime. What about six months after your build when a new app's installer crashes? If you've got a drive imagine app, add 15 minutes each time this happens (and the 45 minutes+ of down time each time you create a new disk image). No drive imagine software? Add 2-3 hours to re-load the OS and apps. Then there's the "spring cleaning". Even on a well-built system made out of good components, you may find yourself stuck with bad registry keys and after enough of those, 2-3 hours for yet another OS and app reload. So, even if your machine is, say $500 less than the comparable Mac, you savings could quickly become a wash due to the extra overhead of the build, troubleshooting, and maintenance.
Mac? 2-3 hours to load apps and 15 minutes down a month to run Diskwarrior and Onyx. I've been running on the same refurb'ed G5 for more than 3 years and have yet to re-install the OS (though I probably just jinxed myself

).
I guess, if you like tinkering around with computers, PC is the way to go. But if you want a turn-key solution for recording, its Apple. Just remember, on both sides of the fence you can find instances of failed hardware, badly written code, and unbeta-tested drivers. No matter which way you go, don't be an early adopter.
Another way to look at it is a "should I buy stocks or bonds?" approach. Right now, Apple has a new OS in Leopard. It (like every other OS ever written) has had some early issues that are being addressed over time. On the other hand, Microsoft has a new OS that has had persistent issues, especially in the DAW realm. I don't see a long line of recordists using Vista. And it seems MS is already looking ahead to their next OS, which leads me to believe that Vista is going to suffer the same fate as Windows ME. So, it seems like right now is the time to "get in" on the Apple side IMHO.

palinilap · Post by **palinilap** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:50 am

I'm fortunate to have a friend that builds really stable PC's. I pay for the parts, like $75 for labor and end up with a perfectly good machine. So, for me, PC is considerably cheaper than Mac. That said, if money was no obstacle, I'd totally buy a new MacPro.

RefD · Post by **RefD** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:51 am

IME/IMO, Macs and PCs are just two different flavours of stinking turd.

that said, the only major problems i've had with PCs are the occasional dead hard drive but that happens on Macs plenty as well (avoid Seagate and Western Digital!).

a well-built PC (IOW not Gateway, eMachines or low-end Dell) also has good potential longevity on its side.

OTOH, i have met or owned a few Macs that bricked within two years of the original purchase and in all cases it was a hardware issue related to a manufacturing defect.

Jay Reynolds · Post by **Jay Reynolds** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:57 am

palinilap wrote:I'm fortunate to have a friend that builds really stable PC's. I pay for the parts, like $75 for labor and end up with a perfectly good machine. So, for me, PC is considerably cheaper than Mac. That said, if money was no obstacle, I'd totally buy a new MacPro.

I'd add a cautionary note here, though. There's IT, and then there's DAW's. A perfectly competent MCSE who builds high-test gaming systems can be totally lost on a DAW build. There is an extra level of research that involves making sure that your new system will work with the 3rd party hardware and software that you want to incorporate. I'm not questioning whether your guy is good (I'm sure he is). But someone could take this concept and wind up with a very fast machine that refuses to work with, say, Pro Tools LE.

RefD · Post by **RefD** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:10 am

during an IT career over a decade old, i have yet to meet "a perfectly competent MCSE".

i have met a few who are perfectly competent rat catchers, tho.

Jay Reynolds · Post by **Jay Reynolds** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:33 am

RefD wrote:during an IT career over a decade old, i have yet to meet "a perfectly competent MCSE".

i have met a few who are perfectly competent rat catchers, tho.

LOL. MCSE just sounded better than "dude who makes PC's for a living". Or did it?

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