AUDIOPHILES

[dynomike]

I've just been trying to put together a nice living room listening system, as well as investigating a decent 'far-field' monitoring system for the studio, and I fear that with all this online research about 'high current amplifiers' and 'rock solid transports' etc etc that I might become a bit of an audiophile.

We (engineers) often make fun of audiophiles... that is, the kind who hang around the elementary schools putting highlighter on their CDs and dealing $1000 power cables. I think these audiophiles might just be wannabe mastering engineers who really lost their way at some point, and started believing that they could hear things that weren't there. I just hope I haven't started down a dark road that leads to obsessively upgrading the internal wiring of my girlfriend's computer speakers because "I CAN HEAR THE DIFFERENCE"

Alright so anybody here using tube power amps?

[stereopathetic_banjo]

Not much to add, but as far as tube amps go, i've always wanted to try the z-vex nanoamp. If it sounds great, that could be a really cool way to power nearfields at moderate mixing volumes. Anyone have experience with tube amps for their studio monitors?

[Professor]

I don't know about Chesky necessarily, but I'm definitely an audiophile. I was at the stereo shop drooling over high-end stereos before I decided to become an audio engineer. Yeah, I was working as a student recording tech, but I hadn't made the leap yet.
I owned my first pair of B&W speakers before I was done being an undergrad... sure they only cost $250, but still.
My personal speakers at home are B&W, Tannoy, and PMC currently, amps are Ayre Acoustics for 2-channel and Rotel for surround (sorry, no tubes) and yes, I actually own DVD-A discs. Haven't gone SACD because surround is more interesting to me than high-res transfers of old tapes.
In the school studio, the speakers are JBL LSRs because I like the titanium tweeters and carbon fiber woofers, and the amplifiers are five Bryston PowerPack-250s delivering 500 watts of monoblock glory to the mains in the 5.1 rig. There's even a Rega P3 turntable and Apollo CD player sitting alongside the mixing console.
Even the headphone amps for monitoring are Bryston 2B-LPs, although that had more to do with a spectacular deal and their 20-year warranty.

Oh, and yes, I have a pair of Sennheiser HD-650s at home (and HD-580s, and my first set of HD-525s from back when I was still in school).


But the audiophile ways also carry into the recording side, and I have Earthworks, Neumann, Gefell, AKG, etc. that are fed into the likes of Grace & Groove Tubes preamps, etc.


Oh, oh, and I mustn't forget to mention that yes... I do have some very spendy Cardas cables on the home rigs.

And I used to sell & install high-end home theater, including the occasional $60,000 pair of speakers.


Is that kinda what you meant?


-Jeremy


ps - But if it makes you feel any better, I bought an '87 Porsche 944S last fall, and it still has the stock Blaupunkt cassette deck, and I rock the Miami Vice soundtrack cassette loud & often.

[freakmech]

I was once a subscriber to Stereophile magazine and swore by hi end audio. I will tell you this, i spent more time trying to hear the nuances of tri/quad wound cables then actually listening to the music. My advice, get yourself a used McIntosh tube receiver. A decent CD player the an outboard DA. And a nice beltdrive turntable. Get midgrade cables to hook it all up with. And test out some speakers till you find some you feel are pleasing. Then never look back. Hi end audio is a silly game of spending money and hearing with your eyes. Stop it NOW. Apogee speakers are very nice, i have a pair of there ribbons i bought used for $300 and its all i need. Do be silly, treat your room, not your stereo system.

[rwc]

Yes. My interest in audio started as an audiophile, not a musician.

I don't consider myself an audiophile in the crazy sense. I consider myself an audiophile as in, "someone who does research on how to get a hi-fi that offers the best reproduction of music within a certain price range." I got thiel cs3.6 speakers, a used $250 parasound amp, and a PC sound card.. that's good enough for me.

[joel hamilton]

I love music, and I listen to it constantly.
I can enjoy music on a shitty car stereo, coming out of my wife's ipod touch, or out of ADAM S3A's, or out of NS10's, or especially coming from JBL 4312a's!

Seriously. I LOVE music. I really, really,really love RECORDED music, and recordings in general. I can listen to field recordings of fish or whales and then listen to a cassette recording from the 80's of a punk and, then right back to something Tchad Blake did to Dave brubeck, then back to slayer, then chet baker, then..etc..etc...
I really, really love recorded music.

At home, I dont even have a stereo set up right now beyond some altec computer speaker system thingy via Airtunes. Doesnt bother me at ALL.

I own or have owned plenty of tube monoblock action... I laughed because I actually mixed on NS10s powered each by a 75 watt macintosh tube amp for years!!! (as suggested in your poll).

I used to read hifi mags once in a while, as I felt like it actually was a part of my job as an audio engineer (in training at that point) to at least know what was going on. I didnt see it as the dark side back then... maybe because more emphasis was put on the quality of the playback systm in the average person's home. now its about which iPod dock they should get....

This is a dangerous thread!

[comfortstarr]

Dynomike,
I recently went through the "put together a nice living room system" thing. For years I'd had a Sony "executive" boom box for listening. All spare money went to instruments, equipment, the car, and booze. The Sony gave up the ghost and I decided to dip my toe into the water of "nice stereo stuff." I wound up with a NAD C715 all-in-one thingy and a pair of Epos ELS 3 speakers. It's a glorified bookshelf system, but I don't crank stuff volume-wise. The whole thing cost about $775-800.

So, this is baby-audiophile we're talking about, but geez, it sounds good. Really really good. Sigur Ros? Massive! "After the Goldrush"? As if Neil was sitting right there. I'm really pleased and feel it was a well spent $800.

That said, I can't imagine I'll go much further with the whole audiophile thing. I can't spend more than $100 on anything without angsting about it for weeks. My gut tells me there's a diminishing return as you go up and up and up. I will say this, I once heard a James Brown LP on an audiophile friend's system (separate tube amps, cables as thick as my forearms, speakers that looked like they belonged in the Guggenheim) and it sounded pretty dern good.

[dynomike]

Thanks for the encouragement and warnings...

I just got these new (old) speakers yesterday for my living room, late 80's Infinity Kappa 6, which aren't ported, and have really nice ribbon tweeters which are -2dB at 35kHz. Unfortunately now I can hear all the grain and whatnot of my horrible DVD player d/a converter, and I'm not sure if my old yamaha integrated amp will cut it anymore!

I am honestly considering some kind of a el34 tube amp for this (home) situation just because I want something that will hide the flaws and make listening to music a little bit less of a technical exercise.

But then the guy yesterday who sold me the speakers planted all these audiophile seeds of evil like "I hear if you replace the internal wiring of the speakers with..." and "you should really hear them powered with a high current amp.. what do you have at the studio?" ... and I just can't get into tweakaholic mode at home... gah!

How do you draw that line in the sand?

[Professor]

How do you draw that line in the sand?

Usually with your wallet and/or the WAF (wife acceptance factor).
You know, make sure you are actually paying for rent, food, car repairs, etc. before any of the audiophile pursuits.
Other than that, it's just a question of what you like and what works in your space.
If you enjoy it, it makes you happy, and nothing else suffers for it, then why worry about it.
Well, unless you stop listening to new music and turn into one of those audiophiles who only puts in the 2 or 3 albums that show off the system.

I haven't bought any new home audio gear in a long time... well, except for the HD-DVD & BluRay players, but that was to replace an old DVD player and to get a PS3. I'll be done (for real) when I get a nice set of floor-standers for home... but that's not going to happen until I live somewhere other than an apartment. I have a cool subwoofer for the PMC surround rig that isn't in use because it would piss off the neighbors - instead I'm just using a butt-shaker mounted to the couch.

-J

[weatherbox]

I can't keep focused when I jog unless I've got my Walkman going through a pair of Pultecs strapped to my fannypack.

[DGoody]

I used to be addicted to that shit..... then I got real. I had spent SOOO much money on upgrading constantly, etc.... it just became a stupid, and futile way to never enjoy music!

I recently sold ALL my home listening system, in an attempt to get back to reality. It has helped. I now have a small setup with an old tube amp in my living room, and that's all I need. I have my mixing studio if I want clarity, depth, soundstaging and all that crap---- ha ha.

But now, I run my Sonic Frontiers tube amp on my main mixing monitors, Linn Kans. Definitely a high end audio sorta thing, and far from a "studio thing". But, it's better for me that way....

[capone]

I never took that audiophile stuff seriously until I heard my brother in law's crazy high end set up. It blew my mind. i spent a fraction of what he spent and still found myself with a much more enjoyable home listening experience. The biggest revelation for me, however: VINYL VINYL VINYL. If you really want to do it right buy a decent turntable and some new vinyl (i.e not your scratched and abused KISS collection) and enjoy the smoothness. My revelation occurred when I compared my cd of Kind of Blue to a record of the same. Amazing difference.

[rwc]

How do you draw that line in the sand?

With science.

There are a few publicized listening tests comparing many modern amps to a panasonic 5.1 80x5 receiver. when driven within its limits no one could consistently ABX it enough for the results to be even considerable against a bunch of other hi-fi stuff.

So where I draw the line here is to buy an amp from a quality company that won't complain about low impedances or high power usage, that isn't likely to break, that's used and cheap.

as far as wiring... have you guys seen the wall wiring in some of the world's biggest studios?

[dsw]

Don't go get your stuff frozen to align the molecles.

I had a customer tell me he did that (cryogenically sp? frozen at minus 175 degrees) and had to listen for about 200 hours and then *snaps fingers* "there it was!"

Not making this up.

Sheesh.

[dynomike]

How do you draw that line in the sand?

With science.

There are a few publicized listening tests comparing many modern amps to a panasonic 5.1 80x5 receiver. when driven within its limits no one could consistently ABX it enough for the results to be even considerable against a bunch of other hi-fi stuff.

So where I draw the line here is to buy an amp from a quality company that won't complain about low impedances or high power usage, that isn't likely to break, that's used and cheap.

as far as wiring... have you guys seen the wall wiring in some of the world's biggest studios?

I'm definately not with you on that specific amp issue... but I do appreciate the ABX testing protocol. When I swapped out my shitty JVC receiver to the NAD 2200 it changed *everything*. Seriously, sounded like new speakers. Instantly recognizable change in the high end (no more smear!) and way more solid / punchy / faster throughout. I could ABX that 100 times out of 100, I guarantee it.

DGoody, what kind of tube amps would you recommend for home listening at moderate volumes, having been there, done that?