Has a piano made a difference in your studio?

Leopold · Post by **Leopold** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:24 pm

We're almost done building my studio. I was wondering if getting a piano would make a difference in getting more business? At the moment I can't afford anything high end so I'm not sure if it would make much of a difference. What are peoples experiences with uprights and console pianos as opposed to other types i.e baby grand?

Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

Eddie

rwc · Post by **rwc** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:59 pm

having a grand piano like the yamaha c7 puts you in a class above the places with a U1 or some other upright. People prefer playing them, and they sound better. sure it costs over twice as much but in the long run you'll make better recordings and you'll be the place people who record piano want to work with.

Get a nice pair of mics for 'em, too. akg 451s, earthworks QTC50s, 414s, and you'll get all the people who recorded with a cheap upright & mxl pencil mics redoing their album with you and telling all their friends.

TapeOpAndy · Post by **TapeOpAndy** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:10 pm

In my opinion, a good upright (not console) will sound much better recorded than a baby grand.

Personally, I would never buy a baby grand. It might "look" like a grand, but it won't sound like one.

Go to a reputable piano store and try every single piano that you can afford. Even brand-new pianos of the same model can sound very different. Also, keep in mind that a good piano seller can "voice" the piano for you.

littlepokey · Post by **littlepokey** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:04 pm

Yes. Having a piano at our place has helped with business. How much business it has actually brought in is hard to tell, but it definitely gets used a lot. For sure it generates phone calls from it's pictures on the website. I agree that a baby grand is a living room "look at me" type piano designed more to impress the neighbors than actually sound good. Before we got the "piano in residence" at the studio, we had rented a few pianos on a "as needed" basis, and my experience has been that a larger upright can be a pretty nice option (although a little more difficult to mic).

dynomike · Post by **dynomike** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:21 pm

I have an old "upright grand" (full size upright - same string length as a grand). Use it often. I know it has been a selling point on quite a few sessions, even though its not in the best shape.

I'd love to get it restrung and revoiced sometime but its gonna cost at least $1500. And it would take a while for that to pay for itself...

joel hamilton · Post by **joel hamilton** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:41 am

We have a really nice upright, and it gets used all the time.
Even when pianists scoff at the upright piano, then you make it sound great recorded, it will convert people... just like using small guitar amps for giant guitar tracks.
it is about how it records, not about how big it is or how it projects in a symphony space... I know there are people that will argue this fact, but I LOVE recording a good upright piano. not a spinnet or a virginal, but a good sized upright piano. If it is well voiced, recording that piano properly can sound very rich in overtones and harmonically perfect for the track... I also record a LOT of piano that is supposed to be happening with drums, or in a band context, rather than solo piano... I like piano as an instrument, so just like guitar and drums and any instrument, the player is going to influence the outcome as much as, if not more than, any other factor.

If you DONT have a piano, you will never know how many sessions you missed out on, because people will look at your website and decide not to even call.. kind of the same as not having protools...

djimbe · Post by **djimbe** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:04 am

Piano has to sound good recorded like Joel says. Piano also has to be in good mechanical shape so it plays well. Ours sounds cool, but it's old and tired and not a great players instrument. Not for principle instrument work. Like we'll never get any good jazz sessions to use our piano. It gets used all the time for support tracks, 'cause it's available and we try hard to keep it in tune and working like all our other keyboards. Darn thing's from the '20's fer cryin' out loud...

A great piano quite likely will bring a person business. Great pianos are hard to find and pay for. An affordable, good sounding, functional piano is a bonus for many clients, provided you maintain it like all your other gear. I know many times that a 1st time client has played our keyboards for fun during a break, then on a return visit says "hey, this time I got a song for that piano..."

emrr · Post by **emrr** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:08 am

I have an upright that one client uses quite frequently, but I had them before I had the piano. So hard to say. It has otherwise not attracted a single new client, nor has anyone else used it. I've had several folks insist on bringing and using their crappy Casio instead. Combination of no knowledge and an unwillingness to budget for tuning. It's been pointless for me to have it tuned unless I have a direct request, as it once sat for a year without being used. It sounds amazing when it gets tuned and used in a timely manner. It still beats the Casio even when it's not in perfect tune.

I recently have added a Hammond and hacked a Leslie together to go with it. Not been used more than once in the 6 months it's been available.

So I consider them to be for me; they make life easier and better when I can steer people towards using them. They came as great deals, so didn't hurt me much. They would have both been terrible moves had I really expected them to bring new business, and been significant investments. I love the idea of having them.

cjac9 · Post by **cjac9** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:16 pm

what is "voicing" a piano?

Anthony Caruso · Post by **Anthony Caruso** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:54 pm

We have a console piano at our spot and as it makes it's way onto more and more recordings, I don't know how I ever got by without one. As far as business goes, it has been the clincher in a couple of clients deciding to use our spot. Not everyone has a real piano, console, grand or otherwise, and anyone who has played a real piano vs. a Motif or something will know what a big difference that is....

Despite it not being a 7' grand piano, it sounds AWESOME. You don't have to get a C7 to get good recorded piano sounds, especially for certain styles...hard hittin', honky tonkin', bluesy swampy fightin' piano will always sound great on it. And being a big wood box of strings means you also have a cool reverb tank! Just yesterday I had a guy whistling into the top while holding the sustain pedal down and mic'd the bottom of it. Instant spooky verb! Has also worked with reamping, shooting guitars into the bottom of the piano and mic'ing the top. And who doesn't love the sound of dragging a guitar pick across the strings with the sus pedal held. Instant creepy atmosphere! (maybe my piano is possessed, it does seem to make a lot of evil sounds).

I guess it's like any gear, does a tube 47 sound amazing? Yeah. Do I own one? I wish! Do I get by with what I got? Definitely. And do I sometimes use a 57 for vocals despite all my other choices? For sure. Pianos are sweet. Get whatever you can afford that sounds and feels good.

(Sound examaple: "Too Many Summer Clothes" at http://www.myspace.com/porchlightrecording)

rwc · Post by **rwc** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:03 pm

Anthony Caruso wrote:hard hittin', honky tonkin', bluesy swampy fightin' piano will always sound great on it.

I use a Yamaha U1 for that often, and it's great.

Sometimes I wish I had a C7 though, you know?

joel hamilton · Post by **joel hamilton** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:17 pm

cjac9 wrote:what is "voicing" a piano?

Tuning it and setting it up (action wise) for a specific outcome... like slightly brighter or darker or mellow or aggressive sounding. I dont know the mechanical specifics or techniques beyond that.
I have watched people tuning and "voicing" our piano for us, and I still am amazed how a good piano tuner can make a piano really speak.

dynomike · Post by **dynomike** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:29 pm

joel hamilton wrote:
cjac9 wrote:what is "voicing" a piano?
Tuning it and setting it up (action wise) for a specific outcome... like slightly brighter or darker or mellow or aggressive sounding. I dont know the mechanical specifics or techniques beyond that.
I have watched people tuning and "voicing" our piano for us, and I still am amazed how a good piano tuner can make a piano really speak.

If you're interested in this stuff, a great book I bought when I got my piano is Piano Servicing, Tuning, and Rebuilding. Its a real boar to read through but I feel like I have a decent vocabulary to talk to the tuner now. I can also appreciate the amazing job a good tuner does, and touch up a few unisons that often slip out before a session.

Voicing is mainly about shaping the hammers and adjusting the striking angle and distance so the keys have an even tone from note to note, and of course making that tone a desirable one... I am very excited to have someone do this for me, but can't cough up the funds yet. I figure I have done enough for now by keeping the 1905? Heintzman out of the trash and in tune.

-Mike

roscoenyc · Post by **roscoenyc** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:02 am

A real piano is like a home made card. It almost always beats Hallmark.
Big part of our joint is having good recording instruments on hand including a Hammond/Leslie, Wurli, Rhodes and a piano.

Ours is a small upright. I had it worked on a couple times and my tuner convinced me to get a real dolly. In almost any studio you are going to have to move the piano around and everytime you move it its a shock to the instrument...having a real professional piano dolly has helped keep my piano in very good shape. It is just a much more stable instrument.

Used to struggle with getting a piano sound until we started getting into ribbons. A mono or stereo ribbon a couple feet from the back of the piano is a great place to start.

.....link to piano dolly
http://www.vandaking.com/heavy-duty-twi ... llies.html

joel hamilton · Post by **joel hamilton** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:47 am

roscoenyc wrote: Big part of our joint is having good recording instruments on hand including a Hammond/Leslie, Wurli, Rhodes and a piano.

I agree. Same here. having good instruments, and keeping them in good working order is a BIG part of having a studio. I always feel like one hand is tied behind my back when I go to a studio that doesnt have a cool , interesting, quality assortment of good sound sources at the project's disposal...

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Has a piano made a difference in your studio?

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