Tracking drums for first time tomorrow!

Mark Legat · Post by **Mark Legat** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:39 pm

Alright. My first time tracking drums. Heres the mic choices I have. 414's, sm52's, sm57's, d112's, 421's, D6, TLM 103's, 451's. I am planning on using a D6 in the kick, and wasnt shure what else to use on it. In class they have us set up the 112 but I dont really like it too much. I was wondering if 421's would sound really bad or if they would be ok? And where would be an ideal place to place the 421? For the snare top I was gonna use the 451 and a sm57 and on the bottom a 451. The toms I was gonna hook them all up with the 421's. For the hi hat and ride some 451's. On the overheads I was going to use the TLM 103's. Whats the different sound I would get for the overheads with that as opposed to 451's? I was gonna put up some 414s as room mics as well, dont know how necesary it is but better to have them than to not have them right? My main question is if the 421 is a terrible mic to use for the kick or not?

digitaldrummer · Post by **digitaldrummer** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:47 pm

414's make nice overheads too. the MD421 can sound good on a kick but it really depends on what the drums sound like and what kind of sound you are going for. I'll try to type fast and say it first

-- put up the mics, try them out and if they sound good, go with it, if not change them out and try something else.

aaronburr · Post by **aaronburr** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:26 pm

421's are THE tom mic, but that doesnt mean you have to use them there!
they are great mics, though. sounds great on bass, too.
by sm52, do you mean shure beta52? id put that on the kick, personally.

rwc · Post by **rwc** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:30 pm

the 52 and d112 have that "basketball on gym floor" kind of kick sound. the 421'd would sound more like the kick before a smiley EQ curve.

Mark Legat · Post by **Mark Legat** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:45 pm

Cool thanks a lot guys. rwc I am not sure I understand the kick before a smiley EQ curve? Low mids or what? Thanks. And Aaron, what others do you like to use on toms? Would a 57 be ideal? And yes its the shure beta 52. I would rather use that over the D112. In my class they have us do it the same way every time and I am just trying to ween off of that and not be "by the book". Dont want to sound like every other mofo coming out of that school. And digital, where would be a decent placement for the 421 in the kick? Should I put it inside kind of at the corner (I know theres no corners in a circle) but like where the wood meets the head on the beater side? The D6 I was just gonna place a little inside the hole.

digitaldrummer · Post by **digitaldrummer** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:11 pm

I have my D6 just a little bit in the vent hole and facing slightly downward - it works for my kick, but maybe not every one - depends on tuning, shell, heads, mic, preamp, weather...

as for smiley face, it refers to the "scooped" EQ curve where some frequency is cut with a pretty wide Q making it look like a smiley face. The Beta 52, D6, etc have that type of response--resulting in a hyped low end and high-mid (3-5KHz) to get lots of thump and click.

Mike

infopimpster · Post by **infopimpster** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:19 pm

Will you have time to try different mics and positions and A/B/C them to find out what you like, or will this be "speed tracking"?

rwc · Post by **rwc** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:33 pm

digitaldrummer wrote: as for smiley face, it refers to the "scooped" EQ curve where some frequency is cut with a pretty wide Q making it look like a smiley face. The Beta 52, D6, etc have that type of response--resulting in a hyped low end and high-mid (3-5KHz) to get lots of thump and click.

Mike

I like doing this, but I hate mics that do it. they do it in an exaggerated way and it winds up getting that basketball on gym floor sound I mentioned before. beware the click, unless you have a speed metal drummer. even then..

it sucks getting stuff to mix with "tht tht tht" instead of "umph oomph" on a country song.

even worse when the +6 @ 55 -6 @ 400 +200000 dB @ 3K EQ after the mic pre, after the d112, gets printed that way. thank god for aptrigga!

that being said, do what sounds good and works. If I were you I'd have every mic up on a nice stand and all plugged in so if you want to switch you're not wasting time. or getting that look from the client like "I WANT TO PLAY NOW WTF ARE YOU DOING!" you just have to make a quick adjustment to the stand and change the input in the program/console/tapemachine/whatever. for all we know the akg 451 may be the most appropriate kick mic and the 421s the best overheads tomorrow! it's your job to find out. i envy you, as I will not be recording anything tomorrow.

Mark Legat · Post by **Mark Legat** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:31 am

infopimpster wrote:Will you have time to try different mics and positions and A/B/C them to find out what you like, or will this be "speed tracking"?

I only have 4 hours of studio time. Were only doing one song though so if all goes well I might be able to try a couple different mic placements/different mics.

aaronburr · Post by **aaronburr** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:02 am

the scooped mids on the beta52 arent a big deal if that isnt the only way you are capturing the kick sound. i use it as something to augment the kick, same thing goes for my snare mic. id rather capture as much of the set as i can on a mic or two over or in front of the set and then mix in close mics to get a little more definition on the snare and kick.

but a 421 and a beta 52 both right in front of the kick a couple inches out sounds like a cool idea to me, if you are going for a close mic-ed sound. im probably going to try it myself sometime.

mertmo · Post by **mertmo** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:15 am

I know someone already mentioned it, but I would be remiss not to bring it up again:

Don't just commit to the 103's on overheads before you listen to the 414's in that
spot. They are equally amazing at that job, it really is a matter of style and taste
which one you're going to like more. If you go with the 103's as overheads and you
trust the drummer not to hit the tom mics, try the 414's on the toms. Pretty amazing
tom mic too. Looks like you have plenty of options, have fun!!

mertmo · Post by **mertmo** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:16 am

Also, the D112 can be awesome on floor toms, so if you don't like it on the
kick, it might serve you well there.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:51 pm

A 421 has a thick midsection for a punchy kick, the 57 sounds a lot like it on kick with silkyer top, 112 has bottom below 63 hz, the 421 doesn't have as much power below 80 hz, punch, yeah, low end thud no. It pairs nicely with a 112.
try a clip on the front shell beater side of the head with the 112 in a shock mount and 421 on the hole side of the kick drum. Match the phase and fiddle.

Mark Legat · Post by **Mark Legat** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:58 pm

Well it went good. I was supposed to have 2 partners there to help me and they both pulled a no show so it was all on me! I did good. Now I know you all will get a kick out of this... I am pretty new so don't be to cruel, and at least I am man enough to admit my silly mistakes. On the overheads for the 414's I had them upside down! When I was setting them up I remember thinking, I think they are supposed to be the black side down! And I was going to go look at a reference sheet I had and I ended up forgetting because I went on with the other mics. I added some EQ and it doesnt sound THAT bad however. Live and learn though. I did a pretty killer job though for my first session and me doing everything and its a flippin SSL so it was somewhat intimidating. I just tried not to let it overwhelm me because I knew that I knew the stuff. I just have bad anxiety, and that big boy will sure give me some. Oh man, the other problem I encountered was I couldnt get sound to come out the monitors. I was getting signal everywhere and I was recording it to multitrack even, so I knew it should be working, and then after a few minutes I realized the monitors were cut!!! I dont know, I guess I thought since the buttons were lit up it meant they were on, but then I read the fine print below it saying "monitor cuts". I know I made some newbie mistakes but at the end the drummer was satisfied and I was satisfied and I can only get better aye? By the way I am digging the 421 in the kick. I kind of got a basketball sounding kick when I solo it but when its all blending together it sounds pretty good. I had the same problem with the 52 (I had time to try them both) but I still liked the 421 with the D6 a lot more. PHEW! WHAT A DAY!

rwc · Post by **rwc** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:00 pm

Mark Legat wrote:Well it went good. I was supposed to have 2 partners there to help me and they both pulled a no show so it was all on me! I did good. Now I know you all will get a kick out of this... I am pretty new so don't be to cruel, and at least I am man enough to admit my silly mistakes. On the overheads for the 414's I had them upside down!

that's better than me. I had one octava mk219 facing up, and one down for the overheads last year.

at least yours were even! I had ride cymbal 10 dB louder on one side. :/

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Tracking drums for first time tomorrow!

Tracking drums for first time tomorrow!

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