most sonic improvement for around $800 ?

pixeltarian · Post by **pixeltarian** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:40 am

I need a good LDC for vocals and acoustic guitar. or maybe a SDC as well, but I think it would make more sense to get one semi decent LDC than one of each and half the quality, right?

and someone told me getting a preamp with a spdif out will greatly improve the quality if I run it through my m-box. so will doing that with with an ART DPS II or digital MPA make a big difference? and what would be the best bang for my buck in the realm of microphones?

I've been looking at:

avant ck-12
Avant CK-7
Groove Tubes MD1B Tube
adk hamburg,
AKG Perception 420
Bluebird
Sterling Audio ST66
MXL genesis (if it's released soon)
MXL v69
oktavamod MK-319
AA CM-47fet
SE Electronics SE2200A

and again, what will make the biggest quality of sound difference with 800 bucks to play with? other ideas (besides spdif/microphone purchase) welcomed.

blackdiscoball · Post by **blackdiscoball** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:37 am

A really nice preamp would help. I couldnt give you any right off the top of my head that would be in your price range but Im sure others will chime in. I would say look into an AT 4050. Those are really nice mics, the 4040 is real nice too, well pretty much any at mic is. I've also heard a ton of good things (and great recordings) done with a bluebird so I guess if you got one of those you would have over 400 dollars to spend on a nice pre for it.

Recycled_Brains · Post by **Recycled_Brains** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:55 am

Lot's of cool mics can be had used for $800. I routinely see Soundelux 195's, Blue Mouses, AEA R84s, Mojave Audio, Charter Oak, ect. sold online for pretty much that exact price. New, you could do a lot worse than a Shure KSM44. Really solid mic that sounds good on lots of stuff. You could also call Full Compass and get a pair of Beyer M160's for around that. That would be sick.

Just get one good thing, and then save for the next step. I have a feeling that one really solid mic would make a hell of a lot more difference than one mediocre mic and a mediocre pre-amp.

If you want to go the pre-amp route, save a couple hundred more and get a 2-channel Hamptone.

djimbe · Post by **djimbe** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:20 am

1.) I love mics. I probably have enough, but I don't have enough if you know what I'm sayin'. Getting a new one and learning how to use it is always fun.

2.) the biggest sound improvement I got for $800 was the result of a call to Ethan Winer to get some of his RealTraps for my control room. I paid a bit more than $800 for what I got, but still...you gotta be able to really hear what's happening. Them RealTraps were huge for us...

dynomike · Post by **dynomike** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:54 am

You won't really find any of the mics on your list in a professional studio's mic locker... I haven't heard of most of them.. so I can't say they're bad, but I can say which are good for that price or less:

Audiotechnica 4047 (my first good condenser). Beefy, but still sparkly enough. Not annoying at all.

Neumann TLM103. A lot of people slag on these for some reason because they think they're a bit overpriced, but used these things are a pretty good deal. Sound more than a bit like a U87. Very clean?

Shure KSM44 is indeed a great vocal mic, and I think you'd find a lot of use for it.

Blue Mouse also great from my limited experience.

Oh, shit! I forgot AKG C 414?!?

I think most of these would leave you a few hundred bucks to put towards savings for a new preamp. They're also proven, reliable mics that are known to work on many sources and will keep their value.

Hamptones are good deals. I think you should try to get quality rather than jumping up to 'new shitty preamp' and 'new shitty mic' at once. (I consider ART, Groovetubes, Adk, MXL, SE generally dubious) The new mic might be all the sound you're looking for anyway.

-Mike

Cojonesonasteek · Post by **Cojonesonasteek** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:07 am

"the biggest sound improvement I got for $800 was the result of a call to Ethan Winer to get some of his RealTraps for my control room. I paid a bit more than $800 for what I got, but still...you gotta be able to really hear what's happening. Them RealTraps were huge for us..."

Amen. If your ability to monitor accurately is compromised (as it is for most home recordists) this is where to put your money because you'll never hear what that new mic really sounds like unless you manage the funkiness of your listening space. We have four of Ethan's traps (as well as a dozen DIY traps), great product.

But if you HAVE to buy a mic, find an old C414 EB with Teflon capsule. They go for $600-700 bucks. Not as sweet & smooth as the brass capsule version (which is much pricier unless you get lucky like I did last week and find one on ebay for $875) but a very nice multi-pattern LDC that will hold its value unlike everything on your list.

Professor · Post by **Professor** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:09 pm

Don't bother worrying about preamps until you have a few mics to work with. As far as I'm concerned, you'll get more of an impact on your sound running a $700 mic into a $100 preamp then you will running a $100 mic into a $700 preamp. And you'll get more variety of tone if you get a few $200-300 mics and run them through your M-Box then if you get a few different $200-300 preamps. Preamps are designed to either be cleaner, to more accurately expose the sounds the mics are capturing, or they are designed to be colored to add a little extra harmonic distortion & coloration to what the mics are capturing.

As for which mic is the right choice for you, let's ask an obvious question...
What mics do you already own?

It would also help to ask, what do you like about them and what do you hate about them?
What sound qualities do you expect the new mic to deliver? (for your voice & guitar)

Give it enough time and every mic from $1 to $2000 will be recommended to you, so knowing a little more might help narrow the field a bit.

-Jeremy

pixeltarian · Post by **pixeltarian** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:44 pm

Professor wrote: As for which mic is the right choice for you, let's ask an obvious question...
What mics do you already own?

It would also help to ask, what do you like about them and what do you hate about them?
What sound qualities do you expect the new mic to deliver? (for your voice & guitar)

Give it enough time and every mic from $1 to $2000 will be recommended to you, so knowing a little more might help narrow the field a bit.

-Jeremy

Well I've got:

MXL 990:
I like that it adds an ultra crisp sound to my lows when I'm singing, but then it gets a bit harsh when I belting out some highs.

EV|Blue cardinal:
it doesn't really sound "warm" on my voice, but I like it for micing amps.

sure 58 and 58 beta:
they're both decent enough, but not as much detail I as I would like.

All the microphones I have are much too harsh on the high end. but I think a muffled high end would sound awful as well.

I want microphone that adds a lot of clarity and crispness to the lows and a lot of warmth to the highs. I'd sacrifice on the crisp lows to get highs that aren't harsh I guess.

sonicdeath · Post by **sonicdeath** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:37 pm

I would stay away from the ART products.. I never liked them and they seem to be made cheap.. Too much noise in a pre for me..

To be honest if you do not own one, get a Studio Projects VTB1 pre... Then change out the tube, as soon as you get it.

For $100 it will greatly improve your sound over the standard Mbox pre... I would not consider it a Pro pre by any means, but for the money it is damn nice....

Then spend $700 bucks on a few mics of your choice....

Im looking at some new mics myself...

And when you have some good mics... and $900 for a pre... Pick up a Sytek. 4 channels of clean nice pres... Best money I ever spent in upgrades... other than some bass traps!!!

KennyLusk · Post by **KennyLusk** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:02 am

When it comes to upgrades I know most folks want to talk about the sexier gear like mics and pre's but IMHO you can upgrade your pre's and mics all day but unless you have an interface with decent AD converters you're still going to be dealing with more mud than you'll care to.

Good converters will "lift the blanket" off your tracks. You'll hear so much more detail and have so much more clarity that with a few carefully chosen mics that have a proven history for accurately capturing the types of instruments you track...your joy of recording will be more satisfied. Reasonably priced mics like most AT's, the "Alice", ADK's, Heil's, etc. suddenly take on more value for you as multi-faceted tools.

pixeltarian · Post by **pixeltarian** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:04 pm

I feel like most your suggestions are a bit above my spending limit.

I've got this:

interface:
mbox2

Monitoring:
tannoy reveal 5a monitors
audio technica ATH-PRO5MS

microphones:
xml 990
EV|Blue
SM58
SM58 beta

Preamp:
ultragain MIC100 (berhinger p.o.s.)

Money:
$800

I don't think an AD converter would improve the quality of my MXL 990.
I would venture to say that getting a good mic wins over getting a good preamp.
how about a $500 microphone like an avantone or something, and a $300 something or other with an spdif out for better conversion (like an
ART DPS-II) ???

or anything you could suggest that is within my budget...

Sean Sullivan · Post by **Sean Sullivan** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:59 am

You can replace a few capicators in the MXL to open up the sound a little, it only cost about $10 and 15 minutes.

My best friend picked up the original MD1A for $300 a couple weeks ago and that's a really cool microphone. I don't know if I'd want it to be my only microphone, but it's a great character piece. You could pick that up and a lot of the microphone you listed used for $800.

If I had $800 and your microphone collection I would probably buy:
Groove Tubes MD1A
Audio Technica AT4033
AKG C451E or C451EB
Shure SM57

KennyLusk · Post by **KennyLusk** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:07 am

Based on what you have, if I were in your shoes (and I have been), and knowing what I know now - I wouldn't hesitate to grab an ART MPA gold, an AT4033, and beg Scott Helmke to sell me an "Alice" mic for $220 (?).

The 4033 and the Alice are an awesome combo for stereo acoustic tracking - from flutes to AC guitar and even vocals. The MPA would allow you to track in stereo and kills your behringer unit. 4033's can be found on ebay from vendor's for like $250 and that's a super bargain.

pixeltarian · Post by **pixeltarian** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:15 am

KennyLusk wrote:I wouldn't hesitate to grab an ART MPA gold, an AT4033,

I'm very interested to know if it is worth the extra green to get the digital mpa so I can go into my mbox via s/pdif. is it?

KennyLusk · Post by **KennyLusk** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:04 pm

that's entirely up to you, and there are plenty of peep's here that love the digital features on their mpa's. I go analog from a variety of pre's into a 1814fw with the BLA mod.

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most sonic improvement for around $800 ?

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