Bass Amp recording???

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sonicdeath
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Bass Amp recording???

Post by sonicdeath » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:09 pm

Ok.. SO normally with Bass Guitar I have been Recording it with a DI and then using guitar rig to simulate an amp for it...

Im getting tired of this, It just feels like the easy way out of doing a good job at recording.

So.. I need some of you experianced people to give me some techniques...

I have no issues getting a great Guitar and Drum sound.. But when it comes to micing a bass.. Its all Mush and mud..no clearity...

Any help on this...(mic placement)?

Also.. I have read somewhere that when recording bass you need to have a mic placed at a distance from the amp.o pickup the low end. It said it had to do with the slow moving wave a bass produces. I have realized this in real life situations... Have you ever known someone with an insane car stereo? Inside the car there is mainly punch..or attack... and you can feel the bass ....but on the outside, at a distance from the car you can hear the bass ...

IS THIS ALL BULL?

I would really appreciate your input here.
Taking into account I have a good mic, good amp, good bass, good player, good pre..ect... Where is a good starting point for recording bass...

What about Isolation?

I think you understand where Im going with this.

Please just spill your bass recording brains all over this post.

Thank you so much for your help.

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joninc
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Post by joninc » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:23 pm

lots of things you can try depending on the context/style

1. smaller guitar amps can be wicked for bass and although not a subby
and deep they can be much clearer and focussed. my fender blues jr and super reverb work well for this.

2. try a large diaphragm condenser 5 ft back aimed center of cab.

3. try dynamic mics up close - atm 25, D12, re20, 421, 441 even a 57 - off axis

- i find that DI gives me low end and amps give me the "note" if you know what i mean.

have fun!
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mjau
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Post by mjau » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:36 pm

joninc wrote:- i find that DI gives me low end and amps give me the "note" if you know what i mean.

have fun!
Or vice versa - I usually set up one track to give me lots of low end, and one to give me articulation in the mids. More often, it's the DI with the lows and the bass amp with the mids, but sometimes it's the other way around...whatever's working.
I like mic's right up on the bass cab, and that still gets me plenty of low end. Good mic's for bass cab I've used: md421, at4050, e602, mc012 w/ red cap.

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Post by tunesbybill » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:56 pm

5 feet back is a good place to start. More can't hurt. Bass wavelengths are typically in the low double digits (hence the car thing) so if you get back a few feet they get to develop enough that you can actually hear them.

I'm with these two on the LDC back and a dynamic or a SDC up close, off axis. Also it's a good idea to run a DI too, if you have the tracks. Can't hurt to have options-especially if the option is something that you are used to.

Good luck.
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Post by A.David.MacKinnon » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:29 pm

I just posted this in the favorite mics thread but here it is again -
The EV 664 is great on bass amp. It's the big (really big) vintage chrome mic you see in all the old Johnny Cash photos. it'll give you all the mid articulation of a 57 and tons of lows too.
WIth other mics I always have to fuck around with EQ and a bunch of compression to get the bass to sit right in the mix. With the 664 it sounds 85% of the way there without any eq or comp.

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Post by djimbe » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:42 pm

It's not that low frequencies are slower moving than high ones, it's that the wavelength is longer so it takes more space for the wave to manifest itself. That's why the "woofy" car foolishness happens. There ain't enough distance in a car for a 60Hz wave to develope before it hits a wall and reflects. Yeah, tough guy. Real "cool" stereo you got there. The guy I sat next to at a light yesterday evening? His trunk lid shaking was making more noise than his sub. Some mother's kids...

Don't forget about proximity effect when using a directional mic on a bass cab. Moving the mic back helps reduce that, which generally results in more clarity in the low end.
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Post by drumsound » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:59 pm

This has been rocking myworld a lot lately.

CMV 563 usually with a DI too.
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Post by bickle » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:25 pm

djimbe wrote:Don't forget about proximity effect
Agreed! But I think it's a good thing - if you tune the bass amp to be sorta flat or even a bit trebly (for bass, at least), then stick the right bassy mic right up on it, you can use the proximity effect to give the whole thing a round, deep-but-not-mushy low end. Try a Beyer M88 or M380 right on the center of the cone of an SVT rig, literally almost touching the grill, and you're golden - just tune a little bass out of the amp to eliminate any mush. It might not sound bassy enough in the room, but wait til you listen back...

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syrupcore
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Post by syrupcore » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:17 pm

pr40 has been great on bass amp for me lately.

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Post by djimbe » Thu May 01, 2008 4:30 am

bickle wrote:
djimbe wrote:Don't forget about proximity effect
Try a Beyer M88 or M380 right on the center of the cone of an SVT rig, literally almost touching the grill, and you're golden - quote]

totally. Both of those are winners on my SVT too. The Fig 8 pattern of the M380 helps in this regard, because it has less proximity than unidirectional mics and the back lobe of the 8 gets you some more roominess that can offset the mud...
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Post by jakeao » Thu May 01, 2008 5:11 am

I used an MK319 about 1-2 feet back, and got good results with it.
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sonicdeath
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Post by sonicdeath » Thu May 01, 2008 6:38 am

Thanks you guys are awesome...

I have plenty of new places to start...


Thank you so much.

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Post by mcsquishytooshy » Thu May 01, 2008 7:00 am

On one recording I helped out
we MEASURED the division/harmonic
of the key that the song was in.
It turned out GREAT.

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Re: Bass Amp recording???

Post by Recycled_Brains » Thu May 01, 2008 7:07 am

sonicdeath wrote:
Also.. I have read somewhere that when recording bass you need to have a mic placed at a distance from the amp.o pickup the low end. It said it had to do with the slow moving wave a bass produces.
tunesbybill wrote:if you get back a few feet they get to develop enough that you can actually hear them.
I find this to be untrue. Close mic a bass cab and tell me you're not hearing those low frequencies. [edit: apologize if that comes off as insulting]

That's not to detour you from experimenting. I usually mic amps a few inches to a foot back, but that's to aleviate proximity effect, not so that the mic captures 60Hz or whatever. If the frequency is there, and the mic has the response to capture it, it'll show up on your song.

Obviously the biggest factor (aside from the player) is the amp itself. If it's a lousy amp, stick with the D.I., but if it's useable, tweak it the same way you'd tweak a guitar amp... with the intention of not having to tweak it later on.

I like SM7's and 441's, and once had wonderful results with a AT4040.
Last edited by Recycled_Brains on Thu May 01, 2008 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by ckeene » Thu May 01, 2008 7:11 am

can someone explain in a little more detail this whole thing about bass guitar having longer wavelengths, therefore requiring a certain amount of feet in the acoustical space? I guess I can follow that a larger space would allow a more complex set of reflections and fewer nasty room nodes and less comb filtering, but how does that really affect close micing of a speaker cabinet? Aren't you ideally getting a direct translation of speaker pressure via the mic capsule regardless of how long it takes a particular frequency to "develop"?

This has always confused me a little.

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