Trying to hold on to tape in a digital world

[Mystic Steamship Co.]

Here's my dilema. I love recording to tape, I have a an otari 8 track reel to reel and I have recorded a fair amount on it, but I just don't have the money to do "real" work without going into a computer, as I would need outboard compressors, reverbs, etc... I really don't need 8 tracks at all, as I primarily write my own songs and record them, so I'm rarely using more than two tracks at a time; so this is what I thought I should do. Sell my mixer and 8 track reel to reel, get a good two channel pre (hamptone or JLM BA), get a good 2 channel interface (apogee duet?), and a two channel reel to reel. I could run everything through the pre and record to tape and then have the outputs of the reel to reel running to the interface. Is this as easy as it seems? Would I be able to record to tape and the computer simultaneously without having to line up every track and without a huge delay between whats being monitored through the interface and whats being recorded on the tape deck?

[norton]

Whether you keep your 8 track or get a 2 track machine..(3 heads) record through the deck. Hit the record head, and send your computer interface the signal from the repro heads of the deck.

When you're tracking you'll need to mute the channels you're recording in your daw...and monitor from your mixing board.

After your performance is done you'll have to align the tracks in the arrange window.. it's an easy nudge away.

In order to find that delay... you can either measure the distance from the heads and do some mathematical calculations..... OR you can split a mic's signal and send it to one track of the deck and one directly into your ad/da and tap the mic... align those transients and that's your "tape/time offset."

You can stack tracks this way without tape drift and even punch in/out. It's totally worth the small hassle of figuring out the setup.

keep the tape rolling Ian.

[analogcabin]

....so this is what I thought I should do. Sell my mixer and 8 track reel to reel, get a good two channel pre (hamptone or JLM BA), get a good 2 channel interface.....

Stop there.
Good mic(s), good pre(s), good interface, good performance, that's what makes for a good recording.
Leave the stupid tape machine out of the equation. You're creating a workflow stopper if ever there was one.

What do you think a medium quality tape machine is going to do to improve the sound of your recordings?

Get a Metric Halo, Apogee Duet or Echo Audiofire and commit your ideas to your DAW of choice.





.

[kinger]

I know it's not the same as tracking everything through tape, but even just dumping your final stereo mix to a tape machine can still give you that sound and will be far easier.

[Judas Jetski]

I'm sure I'm totally gonna get flamed for saying this, but I personally would find a way to make that 8-track work for me. Using tape--not as an effect but as my medium of choice--is a major part of how I work and how I write. Using tape motivates me. Do I hate digital? Not at all, but a hard drive or a computer screen does nothing to make me want to sit down and record.... while just looking at a tape deck makes me want to make music go through it.

Don't be intimidated by the price of gear. (The price of 1/2" tape, maybe. But gear, no.) There's plenty of cheap, cheap gear out there to be had, and some of it plenty useful. The first-gen ART ProVLA is out there for under $200 new, and there's certainly no reason to apologize for it... The Alesis Midiverb... Even a 3630 can sound good if you can figure out how to make it work for you.

You might have to get creative with how you use some of this stuff (especially the 3630), but the kind of creative thinking you develop by using this stuff is what will set you apart from others around you. It can take some time to get everything working together (and well) at the same time, but I think it's worth it in the long run. Especially if what you love is using tape.

There are a number of ways to run a hybrid setup, if that's what you've gotta do. But if using tape is what you love, I say go with it! Find a way to make it work. An ounce of solid motivation is worth 50 pounds of "everyone else says their way is better."

[analogcabin]

I know it's not the same as tracking everything through tape, but even just dumping your final stereo mix to a tape machine can still give you that sound and will be far easier.

What sound?
Please clarify. Or create audible hiss as the case may be.

[xonlocust]

eh - i had an old curmudgeon/bad attitude post but i scrapped it.

i really like working on tape. just do. it's another means towards the end that definitely gets you different results than other ways. for me i like it.

i'm sorta w/andy on the workflow thing - i actually think tape actually increases productivity based on my experience. cuts the wheat from the chaff quicker and makes you commit and therefore develop your ideas faster. results are usually way faster too for me. but i committed to this a long time ago and work w/2" now (but started w/ 1/2" 8tk), and cassette 4tk before).

and it's an aesthetic call for sure, but they definitely sound different.

[Jay Reynolds]

I think the OP wasn't considering analog vs digital as much as they were thinking of trying to hybridize the two. And I'm not sure if trying to keep a 1/2' (I'm assuming its a 1/2') machine in the mix is worth it. 2' (and even 1' in some cases) would be a different story.

[fossiltooth]

I like tape. A lot. I just don't think it's so magical as to trump work flow and cost-effectiveness whenever they're more important. If there's a project where you don't need to worry about super-efficient work-flow or cost-effectiveness benefits of digital, then go for tape If you prefer it.

Here's my dilema. I love recording to tape, I have a an otari 8 track reel to reel and I have recorded a fair amount on it, but I just don't have the money to do "real" work without going into a computer, as I would need outboard compressors, reverbs, etc...

Here's where I feel you may not have thought things through completely. Why do you feel you need to own tons of outboard compressors, reverbs, etc., in order to use tape? And why do you think you're limited to 8 availbale in your own machine?

Are you are aware that there are probably scores of studios within a short drive from you, and that they're in the business of selling time to people who can't afford, or don't see the point in owning, tons and tons of audio equipment?

These days, $400-$600 could buy you one OK compressor, or all day in a studio with a 24 track analog deck and a real console... at least in my neighborhood...

It's kind of a no-brainer if you ask me. Just provide the talent and/or engineer.

[themagicmanmdt]

i noticed something -

getting rid of your 8 track, and getting rid of your MIXER are two different things.

there's a difference with just the 'feeling' or medium of recording to tape and the usefulness and productivity increase that happens when you have a mixer/console.

to me, an outboard mixer is much more useful as an instrument than simply the medium. the medium is the icing on the cake.

but the icing has to taste good. so, chocolate or vanilla, make it the good stuff.

[@?,*???&?]

Take digital tracks off tape and maintain the 'tape coloration'. It can be your secret weapon.

My Studer kicks butt.

[fossiltooth]

getting rid of your 8 track, and getting rid of your MIXER are two different things.

there's a difference with just the 'feeling' or medium of recording to tape and the usefulness and productivity increase that happens when you have a mixer/console.

to me, an outboard mixer is much more useful as an instrument than simply the medium. the medium is the icing on the cake.

Yep!

[percussion boy]

so this is what I thought I should do. Sell my mixer and 8 track reel to reel, get a good two channel pre (hamptone or JLM BA), get a good 2 channel interface (apogee duet?), and a two channel reel to reel.

One other part to the equation: Understand that your 8 track may not buy all that much gear if you do sell it. It will help if you can ship it -- Do you really want to ship it?

I sunk a bunch of money into my Otari 1/2" eight track (head relap, setup by a good tech, manual, alignment tape, bunch of 456) and that investment is now more than the deck is worth -- never mind buying the machine itself.

You can always use the thing as a mixdown deck if you go DAW, 'til you find a better-sounding two track. Might even wake up one day and want to record drums and bass to tape, for the patented "Otari growl."

fwiw.

[kinger]

I know it's not the same as tracking everything through tape, but even just dumping your final stereo mix to a tape machine can still give you that sound and will be far easier.

What sound?
Please clarify. Or create audible hiss as the case may be.

That's pretty much the sound I meant.

[norton]

I just don't see what the "hassle" is... tape runs first and just keeps running. You've got like 28+ minutes of tracking time before you've got to rewind.

And one quick key command before your audio is aligned in the daw.

I don't use my deck all the time... but I can tell you that every time I do track through it, those mixes come together much quicker. most notably with drums and bass.

Tape can be a bit of a tweaky beast if you're going to keep your deck "up to snuff" and take your tapes to another machine etc.. but if you're going to run it as an effect-box then just keep it clean and happy.

If you like what you hear when you track through your deck... keep it. otherwise you'll be chasing plugins and outboard compressors to get "that sound" and dropping more $$$$ in order to get what you've already got.

e.manyard..... why all the hate for tape?