How to Track and keep the vibe

[Huntlabs]

So I'm tracking original tunes I worked up with my band over the years. Our previous recording were fairly sloppy live ventures with poor tempo.

I want to make a fairly tight fairly polished recording. I've been playing guitar to a click and then having the drums and then the bass track their parts. I can't seem to get the drummer to track to the click and still keep the vibe. The drums sometimes speed up and slow down to catch the click. I seem to be the only one that can play to a click and when I do the other member have discomfort playing that accurately. When it is done I sometimes get ok results sometimes I just get frustrated as does the rest of the band.

As a band we all play as one, sometimes rushing sometimes slowing down, but all together.

I'm thinking I should just track a rough track with the band and record to that. Screw the click? Screw the slightly polished pop song vibe? WTF?

Suggestions please, prior to hanging self with mogami cable!

[signorMars]

when you record without a click, is it noticeable and bothersome that the tempo changes? if you think the tempo changes negatively affect the sound of the recording, then your drummer needs to learn to play to a click, or you'll get to spend a ridiculous amount of time editing and probably end up with a less than lively drum track. there are tons of records out there that were clearly not played to a click, but it's not really detrimental (and i'm sure it's only a matter of time before this thread devolves into a listing of said records). on the other hand, if it's too much change, the band will sound sloppy and unprofessional. if it turns out the prefer the more tempo correct click track recordings, you may have to delay the recording of your album a few months and have the band practice to a click, both as a group and as individuals (particularly the drummer). once you're used to it, you wont all be concentrating so hard on hitting the tempo and you'll get a good performance. if the drummer can't or won't learn to play with a click... then comes the fun process of deciding whether your music or your friendship with your drummer are more important. good luck!

[Colin F.]

Get the best headphone mix that you can.

[fossiltooth]

Drummers need to understand tempo. If they can't play to a click, they don't truly feel and understand tempo yet. They need to learn to be better drummers.

I'm all for ditching the click and recording natural...

...but it's a right you earn by developing a deep understanding of pulse.


90% of the time that I hear new bands say "We play fine without a click. We all push and pull together" they actually mean "The bass and kick drum push and pull against eachother constantly and it sounds terrible". The other 10% of the time, they're awesome musicians. True motherf*ers.


Pulse is the fundamental element of music. Not chords, not notes, not chops, none of that. I'm not talking about house music here, I'm talking about all music. A great sense for pulse, fluctuating or not, and how we interact with "the beat" as players is where musical expressiveness come from. Likewise, whenever you see a band play and you think "Wow. These guys are tight". It comes down to rhythmic lock. That's what people are secretly paying for when they go to see a live show: A bunch of people vibrating at the same frequency, and infecting the rest of us with that same vibration.

I don't care how lame and new-agey this might come across to some. This is easily the most crucial advice I've ever given here, or anywhere else. It all comes down to this: listen. Are you really hearing /feeling eachother?

Try simple exersizes. Learn to play really simple, really boring rhythms together to a click. Lock in. Can one of you play a straight 1/8th note groove while the other lays down a simple quarter note rhythm.... consistently? To a click? For ten minutes? How about twenty? I know you're going to say "yes" immediately... but... have you tried?

Do you truly understand what it means to be "ahead", "behind", or "on top of" the beat? When I say "understand", I mean with your entire being... not only with your cognitive mind. Try it. Play to a click. Play consistently behind the beat. Play consistently ahead. See how it feels. Try it with other musicians. If you can't do it yet, don't worry. It's not your fault. Rhythm is the last thing that musicians seem to learn in our culture. Master it, and you will never be out of work.

Music should be effortless. No one wants to hear/see a group of people absolutely struggling for 40 minutes straight. Noticeable effort and exertion should be a momentary dramatic experience... not a way of life. Eliminate undueeffort from your performances.

Sounds like you might have a lot of practicing to do. The only way to get really good at anything is to do it constantly. Do you rock everyday? Do you?

[theBaldfather]

Now that is a fine post Fossiltooth. +4

[MoreSpaceEcho]

yeah awesome post.

that said, huntlabs, i would try just ditching the click and see how it sounds.

[A.David.MacKinnon]

+1 on everything posted above. Practice, practice, practice.
One other thing, don't over practice the songs you intend to record. By this I mean don't use only those songs as the material you have to play in order to learn how to play to a click as a band. Play anything and everything - covers, riffs, just plain jam.
The point of all this practicing is to make you play better together, NOT to make you only play 12 song better. If you only practice the songs you intend to record you'll hate them with a passion by the time you're ready to record. Nothing kills the vibe better than that.

[fossiltooth]

Thanks for digging the words. It's something I've been thinking about a lot lately.

In my current price bracket, I end up working with a lot of new bands, and I'm always trying to find ways to help them make the best recordings they can. There's only so much that we can do with microphones. I've finally realized that I'd rather spend time coaching people to do their best then spend time editing. It sounds better too. If you have the right attitude, and you're good at squashing hostility and judgmental behavior, people appreciate the advice. "If you give a man a fish..."

The point of all this practicing is to make you play better together, NOT to make you only play 12 song better. If you only practice the songs you intend to record you'll hate them with a passion by the time you're ready to record. Nothing kills the vibe better than that.

Good point!

[hobbycore]

It's in your best interest to take some time with the drummer and bassist aside and spend one or two hours with them doing this exercise. As a drummer I do this constantly to improve my tempo, and I've found that even an hour or two of doing this will greatly increase a players understanding of rythm.


Take a snare drum, mic it.
Setup a click.
If you can, set the click sound to a high pitched squeel with a sharp attack.
Stick a compressor on the click that has no makeup gain.
Set the compressor to very short attack and release, very high ratio and very low threshold.
Sidechain to the snare.
Feed the 'click' loudly into the phones, but none of the mic.

Now when the snare drums hits at the same time as the click, the click will be compressed and become very low in volume.

Tell the drummer to click his stick on the rim of the snare and make the click sound dissapear. The more annoying you make the click, the easier it will be for him/her to to hear what they're doing and have much more reason to make it dissapear.

RECORD IT You may need to show him/her, very tactfully and politely, that they're not doing it.

Let them do it for an hour, or two hours if s/he has discipline and patience... but then again if s/he did, you probably wouldn't be doing this.

Repeat with the bass player, except have him/her mute their strings and pluck sharply.


If you can get them to do this for an hour then they will have gained a very strong understanding of tempo at least for a a day or two.

If you can get them to do it for 10 minutes at the tempo of the song, then you can probably get them through the song.


If you are the instrumentalist or can convince the band members, try to do basic rythms between strings/drums while keeping the click vanished. As you progress you can learn more about playing behind the beat, on top of the beat, on the beat, shuffling, driving and laying back dynamically.

[Jay Reynolds]

+1 as far as what Fossil said.
One big piece of advice that I got none other than Bootsy Collins is to count in half-time. Its something that he recommended that I cultivate while palying and listening to music. Instead of counting "1-2-3-4", count "1---3---". It takes a little getting used to, but it forces you to not micro-manage the pulse. I noticed a giant differnce in my approach to rhythm when I started counting this way. A lot of the ahead/behind stuff that Fossil is talking about felt a lot more natural.
Another good thing to try is run a click during rehearsal. Hook a drum machine up to the practice PA and have at it. Once that gets easy, run the click in 1/2 time. Then on every downbeat. Then every other downbeat.
Lastly, try one from the James Brown playbook: practice one groove for 30 minutes straight. I promise you'll have everyone on the same page rhythmically after that.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

just to add to the above: count in halftime, but count 2 and 4 rather than 1 and 3.

[curtiswyant]

The other musicians need to learn how to play with a click. The practice will also help them stay steady when playing without a click. A good drummer can groove so well with a click that you won't even notice. I agree if the tempo fluctuations don't bother you (or aren't noticeable), then it might be ok to leave 'em as is. Otherwise, a click is the way to go. It might be a good idea to only have the drummer listening to the click, then have everyone else follow the drummer (you'll get a more natural performance from the guitars/bass).

[Jay Reynolds]

just to add to the above: count in halftime, but count 2 and 4 rather than 1 and 3.

If its jazz, maybe. If its not, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. The downbeat is of the utmost importance.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

you think? i feel like when people are not grooving so well i try and get them to focus on the snare and play to that.

when i've played to clicks, i usually feel like i play a lot better if the click is emphasizing the backbeats and/or the upbeats...ends up sounding sexier/funkier, which i think is a good thing. depends on the song of course, you wouldn't want a click on the upbeats for your cover version of 'halleluwah'....

i'm not disagreeing with you or anything, just saying.

[douglas baldwin]

Here's a treasure trove of tips for practicing with a metronome:

http://www.korg.com/service/prosessions.asp

These are THE PLAYERS showing you just how they work out. Can you say John Scofield?
Jake Cinninger?
Bela Fleck?
Joe Satriani?
etc...
Anybody who says they "don't need" a metronome or "can't play" with a metronome should answer to these guys.
BTW, you HAVE to subscribe to this, because next up will be Victor Wooten, who BLOWS MY SOCKS RIGHT OFF MY FEET! Victor's mm demo goes like this:
He starts with the mm = 160, playing a straight-eighth funk bass line.
Then he plays the same line w/mm = 80, clicks on beats 1 and 3.
Then he plays the same line w/mm = 40, click only on beat 1.

Then he plays a walking jazz line, mm = 40, click on beat 1.
Then he plays the same line, same mm setting, but he puts the click on the "and" of beat 4.
Then he plays the same line, same mm setting, but he puts the click on the "and" of beat 3.
Then he subdivides the pulse of 40 bpm into five, and plays a line at 200 bpm, placing the click on the "1" of measure one, the "2" of measure two, the "3" of measure three, etc.

To hear and see a human being do this - BAM! BAM! BAM! - one example after another in real time, is testament to the real craft of musicianship.

Victor also has one of the best lines in all of the tutorials. He says something like, "My goal is to hear less and less of the metronome and still be in sync with it because I want the groove to come from my own good time." (My emphasis)

I was the lucky guy who got to transcribe all these sessions!