Recording/mixing Rhodes

[Michael Winston]

I'm just starting to record, though I've been playing guitar full time for several years now. I'm using Logic Express on a Macbook Pro with a 828mkII.

I've been recording a 73 key Mark I Rhodes with mixed results. I've tried several different approaches...direct, through a BF Vibrolux, and both together.

I feel like it tends to muddy up the mix...I've tried EQ'ing, compressing...etc, but can't seem to find the right mix of no mud, full and clear.

Is there another approach at getting the right sound while tracking that I can try, or is it a mix/eq thing, (and if so, any tips on that)?

Thanks!

[weatherbox]

I definitely prefer it amped - I usually go through an Ampeg B25 or a Sound City/Hiwatt head into 4x10, sometimes 1x15 bass cabs. Something with enough headroom (both in the amp and the speakers) to handle the low notes while saturating just a little bit. It usually ends up EQ'd a bit in most parts where it's a support instrument - if it's just Rhodes and maybe one or two other sources can usually let it sit as it is. The low mids on those things can definitely crowd up a mix, and I'll often put on a highpass or a gentle shelf in addition to a couple specific cuts where something else needs to pop through. I'm not sure I've compressed a Rhodes, usually some EQing does it for me except in cases where I've just done a shit job on something and there's a mess in the low mid content.

I guess also there's the issue of how well the Mk I has been maintained. That's an old board. The three Rhodes I record most often vary in condition and you can seriously hear the difference. One the MkIs was just restored and it sounds... damn. Just awesome.

[Nick Sevilla]

I'm just starting to record, though I've been playing guitar full time for several years now. I'm using Logic Express on a Macbook Pro with a 828mkII.

I've been recording a 73 key Mark I Rhodes with mixed results. I've tried several different approaches...direct, through a BF Vibrolux, and both together.

I feel like it tends to muddy up the mix...I've tried EQ'ing, compressing...etc, but can't seem to find the right mix of no mud, full and clear.

Is there another approach at getting the right sound while tracking that I can try, or is it a mix/eq thing, (and if so, any tips on that)?

Thanks!

What is the Rhodes masking (muddying) exactly?

Depending on the part played, it might get in the way of the bass guitar, the electric guitar, or any number of other instruments. It definitely help to know two things:

1. The song arrangement...

2. How to record the Rhodes so it Complements the other instruments. If you do not need any more low end on the mix, then by all means get rid of the low end off the mic, otherwise try to play an octave up, etc...

Try recording with a smaller mic, and roll off ANY low end you will not be needing. Just get rid of it. If going direct, EQ the low end out.

If you are trying to make a bunch of instruments that play the same register (same octaves) then by all means you will end up with a muddy mix. There's not much there except to thin some / all the offending parts. Try EQing the bass, the Kick, and the rhodes so they can be together.

Cheers

[Michael Winston]

Thanks for the responses guys.

I've had the most luck with it through an amp mic'ed. Seems clearer, and more natural.

I've had some trouble with left hand parts and bass....as well as loop/ambient/synth style parts that fit in the same range.

I'll go back and check some arrangements and see where I can simplify...or heck, even take the left hand out.

[A.David.MacKinnon]

Compression will help even out the volume differences between the left and right hand. Also try running an instrument pre-amp before the amp. I find the low output of the stage model Rhodes meand that the highs end up too loud and the left hand sounds weak. I've been using an MXR micro amp between my Rodes and a Super Reverb. It helps a bunch.

[SpencerBenjamin]

Seeing as you're using a MkI Rhodes I'm guessing you're after the fat 70s end of the Rhodes sound spectrum, not the 80s schlock end. On mine I have an accessory output & return, & this is perfect for plugging into a small guitar amp with the tubes running hot (I use a Musicman 210 sixty-five), and there you have tubed compression & subtle distortion (or not so subtle if you prefer), plus you can use your favourite guitar pedals. Mine is the 'suitcase' model which has the speaker cabinet, this i find can be hard to mike - a little boomy at times, although an akg451 has worked well for fitting into a mix.

[SpencerBenjamin]

Ok, just re-read your post. You've already tried that. Sometimes the mouth runs away & the brain just follows...

[fossiltooth]

I feel like it tends to muddy up the mix...

That't just how the Rhodes sounds... especially DI'd.

Most Rhodes sounds you're familiar with on records are heavily EQ'd, or otherwise a far cry from the direct sound.

My "secret weapon" is a fender vibro champ, it's tiny speaker, and the bass and treble knobs built into that amp.

...Also, not leaving the "Bass Boost" knob cranked up to 10 all the time helps.

A lot.

[phantom power]

Although it might not fit the song in question, here's something I've done with a Rhodes (and Wurli as well).

DI with a good amount of compression (fast release time) split off to an amp. Mic the amp off to the side of the cone a bit and not too close. EQ so that most of your low end is coming from the DI and everything else is the amp. Pan to taste. Sometimes hard left and right can really open up the center for guitars, bass, etc.

Hope this helps a little.

-AE

[The Real MC]

You want a tube amp to get rid of the mud. I'm not talking a Marshall, I'm talking something with subtle overdrive. The reason Fender Twins worked so well with Rhodes is because as you push the tubes into overdrive when you play hard, they change the timbre rather than add fuzzbox crunch.

My fave preamp for Rhodes is the Tubeworks Bluetube, it is designed for bass so the overdrive is intentionally subtle, but happens to works real well with Rhodes. Probably any tube preamp designed for bass may work.

One of those cases where a tube will accomplish stuff that an EQ will not.

[joninc]

i find running it through a RAT pedal before the amp with just a little crunch helps carve out the mud and make it sparkly and clear.

[moogrock]

using a wurlitzer 200a instead is my secret weapon... har... i kid...
well.. sorta...
its those low-mids that clutter up a rhodes in a mix... a guitar amp and a lil EQ can fix it...

[joninc]

using a wurlitzer 200a instead is my secret weapon... har... i kid...
well.. sorta...
its those low-mids that clutter up a rhodes in a mix... a guitar amp and a lil EQ can fix it...

they are different birds. i love both for different things

[dsw]

I love the label on the jack on a Rhodes: "Input." As in "this is where you input your cord to get sound out."

Cracks me up.

[ec]

If you have the luxury, you might try using a Twin Reverb to amp the Rhodes. I worked live sound for an 11-piece afro pop band recently, (a pretty dense mix) and the keyboardist was using a Rhodes through a TR---sounded like glass and cut through the mix really well.

Cheers,
-Erik