yes, you heard me! upgraded TOMB ribbon wins on vocals!

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

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monkeyweasel
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Post by monkeyweasel » Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:55 pm

Michael_Joly wrote:
seavote wrote:just curious. what is a TOMB ribbon mic? was this a DIY from a tape op article?
A few years ago now, Tape Op Message Board folks got together and organized one of the first group buys of a Chinese ribbon mic. Er...maybe "organized" is a bit to generous...we sort of stumbled through the process and were helped along by Pacific Pro Audio who acted as the buying agent with the Chinese factory. In true Tape Op spirit, there was quite a bit of good-natured group discussion around which features the mic should have. A mic similar to the T.Bone RB500 (Big, yoke mounted body capped with an angled headbasket surrounding a "long ribbon / narrow magnet" ribbon motor) except with built-in XLR connector instead of long XLR cable was eventually delivered to the group.

After the mics arrived folks again shared their observations about the performance of the mic. Over time, in a few posts, I published an analysis of the mechanical and acoustical resonances found in the mic and a short list of modifications that a reasonably skilled DIY'er could do to improve their mic: removing internal grille mesh to reduce acoustic reflections and provide a more open sound; removing "waffle plate" resonators to eliminate that source of midrange mechanical resonance; installation of acoustic damping in the body to eliminate that cavity's boxiness; installation of a Lundahl output transformer to improve clarity, reduce midrange ringing distortion and extend frequency response; adjust tension of ribbon to eliminate sag which causes low output and / or mechanical clanging and a recommendation to tweak wiring lead dress to minimize hum pick up.

Other's have commented on the good vibes and excitement around this venture - "I'm in for two and I can pay" was the cry of day. If I'm not mistaken, you can see the TOMB ribbon mic in action and feel those good vibes in the Eno-esque "Counterfeit Umbrella" video by TOMBer Inverse Room:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoZQG57PodA



very interesting. whats the likelihood of this happenign again for all newbies like myself who missed first time round? i'm sure it wouldnt be half as exciting doing it a second time, as the true pioneering has already been done, but still, a nice, TOMB tried and tested mic for cheap sounds like a great idea. damn, where was I?

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jv
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Post by jv » Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:23 pm

monkeyweasel wrote:


very interesting. whats the likelihood of this happenign again for all newbies like myself who missed first time round? i'm sure it wouldnt be half as exciting doing it a second time, as the true pioneering has already been done, but still, a nice, TOMB tried and tested mic for cheap sounds like a great idea. damn, where was I?
The Apex 210 and Nady RSM2 are basically the same mics, and now you can pick those up for cheaper than what the original group buy price was.

monkeyweasel
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Post by monkeyweasel » Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:28 pm

ah, better still. thanks.

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Michael_Joly
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Post by Michael_Joly » Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:57 pm

Chance Pataki of the Musicians Workshop has run several group buys since the TO group buy. Current buy is closed, but I'll bet he'll be be back with another.

I think his thread at homerecording.com has the set the record for the most page views of any gear-related thread - over 200K page views:
http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showth ... 4&page=202

monkeyweasel
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Post by monkeyweasel » Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:55 am

woah, that thread is tooo long. couldnt get past the first few pages. but still, what is clear is that theres some quite usable cheap gear coming out of china.

so, that leads me to another question: does anyone have experience buying pro gear directly from/in china o other places in the far east? I dont mean bulk buying from manufacturers, but just regular shopping for bits and pieces as a retail customer. are there any specific bargains to look out for that can be found in pro audio stores? any shops anyone can recommend (particularly in shanghai or hong kong)?

when i was in shanghai earlier in the year i was amazed at the quantity of clothing items made for foreign export (i.e. big n.american or european brands) that find their way onto he domestic market at a low price. some are clearly slightly faulty goods that find their way out of the factory. but not all. and they're not fakes. they're the same quality as, and manufactured in the same factories as, the official big brand export goods, but some factories apparently run off a few extra orders that ship out the back door. so i'm assuming the same is probably true of pro audio gear too.

though obviously there is an ethical issue here...but no more so than buying ANYTHING manufactured by underpaid/overworked staff. which is pretty much everything these days

joel hamilton
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Post by joel hamilton » Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:24 am

monkeyweasel wrote: though obviously there is an ethical issue here...but no more so than buying ANYTHING manufactured by underpaid/overworked staff. which is pretty much everything these days
I dont agree. Not "everything" is made that way. I actually dont know of a piece of gear in my studio that was created that way. I wouldnt want the thing that was made that way. I like to support people that do things well, and do them with love and respect for the art of recording. I am not in this to "get a deal" or just get the cheapest possible thing to do the job. That s not what recording is about to me, and it never was.

monkeyweasel
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Post by monkeyweasel » Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:49 am

joel hamilton wrote:
monkeyweasel wrote: though obviously there is an ethical issue here...but no more so than buying ANYTHING manufactured by underpaid/overworked staff. which is pretty much everything these days
I dont agree. Not "everything" is made that way. I actually dont know of a piece of gear in my studio that was created that way. I wouldnt want the thing that was made that way. I like to support people that do things well, and do them with love and respect for the art of recording. I am not in this to "get a deal" or just get the cheapest possible thing to do the job. That s not what recording is about to me, and it never was.

"pretty much everything" is not the same as "everything". i deliberatley didnt write "everything" because I know that not to be the case. i dont doubt there is still some stuff made under better conditions. and i dont doubt you own plenty of that stuff. I also try to seek out handmade products from small developers whenever possible. its not always possible.

i was talking very generally about manufacturing of all kinds of goods, not audio gear. (using clothes as an example again, I once mistakenly believed that i was doing a better thing by buying smaller, "boutique" clothing brands than the big big chains...my trip to china made me realise they are all getting their goods made in the same factories anyway). though not everything works like the clothing industry, its true.

anyway, I have no interest in debating the ethics of China vs the US and rest of the world here, this is a far more complex subject than can be done justice to on a forum for audio engineers. i hoped that this part of my post might be let pass in order to save unnecessary digression from the subject (but included it in my post cos to ignore it would have been dishonest).

and to clarify: i am relocating to the far east later in the year. if there are some bargains to be had then i'd like to know about them. especially as i make so little money as a musician that i havent paid the rent for the last 2 months and upgrading my "studio" will be very difficult in any other way right now. I'm not just out looking "to get a deal" either, I'm looking for whatever means I can find to improve the quality of what I do with the very limited resources that i have. either that or quit.

i'm not interested in debating this issue here either. i know far more about it than I'm willing to go into. and probably far more about it than most people here for that matter. I have my opinions about this matter that would fill pages, but this is not the place.

themagicmanmdt
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Post by themagicmanmdt » Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:03 am

uhhh....

ok?
we are the village green
preservation society
god bless +6 tape
valves and serviceability

*chief tech and R&D shaman at shadow hills industries*

joel hamilton
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Post by joel hamilton » Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:31 pm

monkeyweasel wrote:
joel hamilton wrote:
monkeyweasel wrote: though obviously there is an ethical issue here...but no more so than buying ANYTHING manufactured by underpaid/overworked staff. which is pretty much everything these days
I dont agree. Not "everything" is made that way. I actually dont know of a piece of gear in my studio that was created that way. I wouldnt want the thing that was made that way. I like to support people that do things well, and do them with love and respect for the art of recording. I am not in this to "get a deal" or just get the cheapest possible thing to do the job. That s not what recording is about to me, and it never was.

"pretty much everything" is not the same as "everything". i deliberatley didnt write "everything" because I know that not to be the case. i dont doubt there is still some stuff made under better conditions. and i dont doubt you own plenty of that stuff. I also try to seek out handmade products from small developers whenever possible. its not always possible.

i was talking very generally about manufacturing of all kinds of goods, not audio gear. (using clothes as an example again, I once mistakenly believed that i was doing a better thing by buying smaller, "boutique" clothing brands than the big big chains...my trip to china made me realise they are all getting their goods made in the same factories anyway). though not everything works like the clothing industry, its true.

anyway, I have no interest in debating the ethics of China vs the US and rest of the world here, this is a far more complex subject than can be done justice to on a forum for audio engineers. i hoped that this part of my post might be let pass in order to save unnecessary digression from the subject (but included it in my post cos to ignore it would have been dishonest).

and to clarify: i am relocating to the far east later in the year. if there are some bargains to be had then i'd like to know about them. especially as i make so little money as a musician that i havent paid the rent for the last 2 months and upgrading my "studio" will be very difficult in any other way right now. I'm not just out looking "to get a deal" either, I'm looking for whatever means I can find to improve the quality of what I do with the very limited resources that i have. either that or quit.

i'm not interested in debating this issue here either. i know far more about it than I'm willing to go into. and probably far more about it than most people here for that matter. I have my opinions about this matter that would fill pages, but this is not the place.
Got it.

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joelpatterson
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Post by joelpatterson » Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:07 pm

Now THERE"S the bumper sticker waiting to happen... "Got it?"
Mountaintop Studios
~The Peak of Perfection~
Petersburgh NY 12138

mountaintop@taconic.net

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