ups and downs of working with gangsta clients

[megajoe]

One thing I've learned as a young audio engineer is that there's a shitload of money in rap music. I wasn't quite pulling in enough to pay the bills when I was recording bands that barely have enough money to pay their own bills, but since I've started working on rap music I've made some pretty good scrilla. I was fortunate enough to land a deal writing beats for a few NFL players and business has been coming to me since then.

Anyway, I recently hooked up with this entourage in a nearby city. They have a home studio they do work out of. Nothing too crazy, just a control room with a 003 and an iso booth. They basically get every artist in the area to record there, but they don't have a real engineer. They were impressed enough with my mixing that they've been having me come back every night I'm available. I charge them $25/hour and they pay me in cash at the end of each session.

I don't care that the house is in the hood. I don't know what this guy did to be locked up for 9 years. I do know he used to be a gang banger. I don't know why they get so excited about bringing tha bitches and hos over when all they really do is be obnoxious and have the appearance of someone you would hesitate to touch with a 10 foot pole. It seems like there's always about 20 people that stop by throughout the night. I don't know what kind of business some of these people are in. Tonight someone said to someone else they were gonna get their piece out and blast em, and that person got the shit beat out of him. Everyone's always getting way wasted over there. It seems like there's a lot of dramatic conflicts. I regularly have to politely tell people to be quiet or leave the control room. Not an ideal work environment. Maybe I'm just the white boy that's out of place. My client regularly gets up and walks away for extended periods of time and I'm left there waiting for him to tell me the next thing to work on.

So it's kind of annoying, but can I really complain? As long as I'm not involved with the lifestyle they're living, as long as I don't end up in a dangerous situation, it should all be cool. My long-term plan is for the whole scene to get familiar with my work and familiar with working with me. Eventually I'll just stop driving there and they'll have to come to the studio I work at.

Anyone else work with a bunch of Gs?

[dungeonsound615]

I hate to say this but feel it must be said, while tehy may be paying your bills ETC. You mentioned one guy saying that he was gonna take out his piece and blast someone, well what happens when your working on a project and you fuck something up and they want you to end up with a cap in yo ass.

take what i say with a grain of salt and just trust your instincts.

Mike

[AstroDan]

Kinda sounds like a potential powderkeg situation. But you're probably not going to start grabbing ho's asses or pull a Phil Spector with your 9mm, so really as long as you stay out of their non-music related business you're most likely safe. And yeah, trust your instincts, stay on your toes and use all the common sense you have.

Just know that that cash they pony up at the end of each session was likely not earned by any CPA or data entry type desk job...

[LeedyGuy]

Eventually I'll just stop driving there and they'll have to come to the studio I work at.

Are you sure that's what oyu want? 20 or so people stopping by your place randomly and knowing what gear you have and where it's located? hmmm...

Anyone else work with a bunch of Gs?

Not quite yet, but I have some guys that I just met with who are a "team" or something like that and they are "thinking dollars, not pennies" and they are basically making "beats" (which i found out means basically the entire background for a piece of a song/rap or even an entire song) on a damn playstation, loading them into cakewalk, burning them to CD and selling them to their "boys on the block" who think they are great to do live freestyle and stuff like that over. They work on their own music too and they sorta brought me in to see what I thought of it and if there was anything I could bring to the table or something like that. I gave some ideas that they didn't seem to dig too much (you know, have a real musician play at least one part on a track to get some humanity into it, stop using playstation as your final product) but they do have one white guy in their group that I might do a song with Mark Ronson style, so we'll see how that goes. At NO TIME did anyone "stop by" or talk about their "piece" nor did I feel like anyone was involved in shady stuff at all, so that was great.

-Ken

[megajoe]

Eventually I'll just stop driving there and they'll have to come to the studio I work at.

Are you sure that's what oyu want? 20 or so people stopping by your place randomly and knowing what gear you have and where it's located? hmmm...

Yep, I'm sure. It's arguably the best studio in the area. Studio A has the SSL G series, Studer A800, HD|3 with 32 analog i/o, huge and awesome mic cabinet, six foot tall rack of outboard gear, etc etc etc. We've had these people do stuff in our studio before, they never come more than 3 or 4 at a time. The people not involved in making the music never come over.

Beats on a playstation?! I haven't seen that one yet. I have seen people do it with the NES or a Commodore 64, but I'm assuming these guys aren't trying to be funny.

One time I had a guy with an audio CD that wanted me to remix this beat he bought. It took me a while to explain to him that it was not possible without the original tracks. He believed there was a piece of software where I could just separate everything. I still think he left without completely believing me.

[newfuturevintage]

I've had a couple friends involved in this kinda scene. One as an engineer / engineer the other as a rapper / engineer. The first had at least one death threat that I know of (a client wasn't happy when they had to clear out of the studio before finishing), the second wore a kevlar vest to his studio, and had guns pulled on him more than once. Be careful, megajoe, what you're describing is not the kind of thing I'd take lightly. Probably more posturing than anything else, but it only takes one asshole to really ruin your day.

[rwc]

The gangsta clients I've had have never been mine, they've been the studio owner's.

I have no problem with it now. Honestly a year ago I might have. However, there are people who don't show up after giving deposits in rock, there are string players who are out of their mind. I don't see it any longer as hip hop clients being off the wall. Rather I see musicians as a whole as out of their mind and treat them equally; I collect deposits, make sure they behave well enough to be productive, and try my best to make sure they leave with a good product. As long as this goes well, I don't really care who the hell I'm recording.

Sometimes they go over the top and an engineer here won't want to deal with it. Once my boss runs out of engineers for a given client, he tells him honestly, "you have to calm down or I'll run out of engineers; I'm telling you this for your own good, since we've given you leeway other studios wouldn't." After a man to man talk they will usually calm down and be passed on to an intern who wants some "hotseat" experience.

The recent gangsta clients I've dealt with have all offered me as much, if not more alcohol, than they consume during the session. That's always been a plus for me.

[fossiltooth]

I've worked a lot of rap sessions for some pretty nefarious individuals who were likely funding their sessions through some pretty nefarious means. I've plenty done sessions for folks who were just released from prison, and for guys who went to prison shortly after we worked together.

I find that if you make it clear upfront that you're their ally when it comes to recording, they'll all treat you like gold. I've never been threatened or intimidated by any of my most hardened clients... everybody respects someone who is competent and treats them like a human being.

I don't do too many of those sessions anymore. I've rarely worked with any of them who were any good, and on a moral level, I don't feel great about paying my rent with drug money.

[aitikin]

...Probably more posturing than anything else, but it only takes one asshole to really ruin your day.

That situation (the asshole) could ruin more than just a day...

[rydaken]

I'm a recovering "Gangsta Rap" engineer. When I first got started, I was eager and found myself tracking for the most notorious gangster label on the west coast. I've got stories for days, about what a bad session can be, and after a year and a half, I decided I was done with it. Like you, I never had a problem with anyone, but there was always a level of tension amongst everyone in the room. The final blow for me was when I took a phone call at the studio for the head of the label. The person on the other end of the line wanted to know when said label head would be showing up, I confessed I couldn't disclose that kind of info. They asked if they were already there, I said they weren't (true) and if they were, I couldn't tell you either way. He told me that he'd hate for something to happen to me outside the studio. I kinda blew it off with a "whatever buddy" and hung up the phone. Next day, on the news, there was a report of machine gun fire on the ground floor of the label's offices. No one was hit, as the only thing on the ground floor is reception, but still too close for my comfort. I moved on. It's just not worth getting hurt over. If the shit goes down, you will not be protected.
Occasionally, I find myself doing a day here or a day there tracking gangster rap music, but I jack my rates way high so I'm rarely requested back. Also, I only do it if it comes with a P.O. from a label and I'm super picky about who it is.

[fossiltooth]

I don't see it any longer as hip hop clients being off the wall. Rather I see musicians as a whole as out of their mind and treat them equally

!!!

[Gentleman Jim]

Bad Karma isn't exclusive to one kind of music, and it certainly doesn't discriminate based on race. But all the same, if you're in a working situation with people who are occasionally tense and armed it can't be worth it.

I've had guns pulled on me 3 times in my life, and I don't recommend it. Thinking about it doesn't make me feel tough; I'm reminded of how helpless and scared I felt. When someone points a gun at you, whether criminal or law enforcement, the possibility of death or maiming is right there in your face, and the control is in the other, angry person's favor.

Further considering that studios tend to have more drinking and drug taking than most places, I would have no problems being super upfront about a no gun policy in the studio, and talk to whomever is in charge about discouraging everyone from even having them in the car.

[nordberg]

i've been in these sorts of situations before. my advice is to always have a friend in case things get ugly...a mutual friend that can diffuse a situation if need be.

[percussion boy]

there are people who don't show up after giving deposits in rock

I so misunderstood that . . .

[Nick Sevilla]

Eventually I'll just stop driving there and they'll have to come to the studio I work at.

Are you sure that's what oyu want? 20 or so people stopping by your place randomly and knowing what gear you have and where it's located? hmmm...

Yep, I'm sure. It's arguably the best studio in the area. Studio A has the SSL G series, Studer A800, HD|3 with 32 analog i/o, huge and awesome mic cabinet, six foot tall rack of outboard gear, etc etc etc. We've had these people do stuff in our studio before, they never come more than 3 or 4 at a time. The people not involved in making the music never come over.

Beats on a playstation?! I haven't seen that one yet. I have seen people do it with the NES or a Commodore 64, but I'm assuming these guys aren't trying to be funny.

One time I had a guy with an audio CD that wanted me to remix this beat he bought. It took me a while to explain to him that it was not possible without the original tracks. He believed there was a piece of software where I could just separate everything. I still think he left without completely believing me.

It seems to me, that you are diffusing the original question, (whether or not to allow these types of people in your studio or not) by naming off a gear list... not by telling us how nice these gangsta musicians really are, when they're not armed (yeah...right...) And, this item in green... ever hear of going off on a tangent? This is what that looks like.

Look, I'm not trying to "attack" you, but I am pointing out that you are excusing your excuse.

If you want to do gangsta rap, then by all means do so, but... don't whine when you or your gear gets shot. Oh, BTW, most major rappers have said already last year, that gangsta rap is dead. Especially some of the OGs themselves. Remember Tupac? Biggie? etc?

Cheers