Drum Recording in a Strange Basement Setting

[roygbiv]

Hey

Here comes a strange question - in my little basement recording "studio", part of the room is divided by a short half-wall thingy that is ~ 3 feet high (I think it was built by the previous owner to keep their dogs out of the rest of the basement).

Anyway, for convenience sake, we place the drums behind this little make-shift wooden wall, with the bass drum right up touching it.

One enters the recording area from the lower right space in the "diagram" below, basically walking past/through the drums, then through a little gate in the 1/2 wall to get into the other part of the basement, where the rest of the band/recording equipment is located.

Now for some questions:

Q1) Besides making us feel safer having the drummer behind a fence (and thus less able to lunge at us), is this a good thing to do? I thought it might minimize bleed to the other instruments (essentially acting as a gobo). Any disadvantages?

Q2) Should I cover the back of the 1/2 wall (the part facing the drums) to minimize reflections? Or let them bounce around? I know, I should just let my ears guide me, but I'm still pretty new at recording drums by myself, so I may not always "ear" things correctly. Also, I'm a scientist in my day job, and thus am used to doing stuff based on some modicum of reason.

Q3) Because of the close proximity of the cabinet/wall behind the drums (~ 3 feet away), I also place two standing "bass traps" (some insulation in 2'X4' frames), one to the left and the right behind the drummer. Is this a good idea, or am I killing ambient room sound?

My mic set-up is Recorderman/Glyn Johns, with an extra mic on the snare.
Any suggestions/comments/mild insults will be appreciated.


Thanks in advance

roy



........................High Resolution Diagram Below..................

=========================================== Back wall



....................................[Tracking area (bass, guitar, vocals)]




1/2 wall
-------|.....gate/path.....|--------------------------------------- 1/2 wall
........................................__________
.......................................|.Bass Drum.|
.......................................|__________|
.........................................DRUMMER

............................[BASS Trap]..........[Bass Trap].....
........................------------------------------------------------
.......................| Cabinet (~ 4' high)
=========================================== Front Wall (~ 7')

[channelcat]

Interesting space. Where exactly are the stairs located, to the left of the kit? Any idea what the previous owner used to fill the wall cavity of the 1/2 wall? You may want to start there and check for insulation, as well as give some attention to the wall facing the kick. Try putting one of the bass traps up against the 1/2 wall if you're really concerned with LF bleed.

You could also drape some acoustical blankets over the 1/2 wall and/or tent the kick. Check out markertek.com, B&H Photo/Audio, and cameronpackaging.com for a selection of what's available. Do you use a drumriser in there or Auralex GRAMMAs for guitar amps in other live area?

How big is the rest of the live room? Where is the bass amp usually located in reference to the drums?

Just some things to nibble on.

And don't be afraid to put the rest of the monkeys in the cage every once in a while. Have you tracked guitar amps or vocals in there?

Stu

[T-rex]

I think that the bass drum would probably sound pretty bad being right up against a wall like that. I had a small practice space years ago where the bass drum was right up on a wall and while it worked for a drum practice place, the bass drum all but dis-appeared while I was playing it, volume wise. You could try deadening the heck out of that area and seeing what you get from the drums. You really just need to spend some time experimenting.

I would probably do the exact opposite and put the drums and people in the bigger area and the amps behind the half wall, with some gobo's between them. My thought being that close miked amps in a dead area and drums in a bigger area will sound much better than the opposite. But you may try it and think it sounds horrible, YMMV.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

totally agree, give the drums some room to breathe. definitely try it at least.

[roygbiv]

Thanks for the suggestions guys - sounds like the least I should do is deaden the 1/2 "wall" more. At the moment, I have a carpet thrown over it, but I do have some OC 703 I could use instead to absorb more bass frequencies.

To help clarify my situation (and to explain why I am trying not to re-shuffle things too much), I've updated my high-res picture, below.

And I need to point out that the 1/2 wall is really more like a wooden fence - instead of moving the drums to a more open space, maybe I should just remove the wall/fence thing entirely - that would be much easier than re-arranging everything in my tiny, cramped 22'x12' recording/practice space.

I've just left it up thinking it helped minimize bleed into the other amps.

================Back wall (~ 12')=======================
........[VibroChamp]...........[Farfisa]..............[PrincetonRev].................
.........(Guitar/Sing).....................(Keys/Guitar/Sing)..............___________
..................................................................................|Recording
.........................................................................................|
.........................................................................................| Desk/
.........................................................................................|
.........................................................................................|Computer
.........................[Main Area ~12'X12']...................................___________|
............................................................................................................|
.........................................................................................____________
........................................................................................|
........................................................................................|Furnace/
..(bass/sing)......................................................................|Chimney
.....................................................................................|___________|
........................................................................[Bass_Amp]..................
//////|.....gate..........|////////1/2 wall(~ 4' high)/////////////
........................................__________...........................................................
........................................|.BassDrum.|................[.....Hanging...................]...
........................................|__________|...............[......Clothes...................]...
..........................................(DRUMMER)..........................................................
..........................................................................................................................................................\\\\\[stairs]\\\\
.....[DrumArea~10'X12']...................................................................................
......................................................................................................................
....................[BassTrap].......................[BassTrap]............................................
........................________________________________________________________
.......................|////////Cabinet (~ 4' high)///////////////////////////////////////////
================FrontWall===============================

[MoreSpaceEcho]

i'll look at that again in a minute when i have time, but your "drummer" made me laugh.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

ok, i would get rid of the wall and try that out with everything where it is in the picture. maybe (probably) move the bass amp to in between the 2 guitar amps.

if you have 22' of length to work with you're doing pretty good. the basement i used to record in was way smaller than that and we made it work.

as far as the bleed, i have to say that every time i tried to really separate things and keep the bleed to a minimum, it turned out kinda shitty. conversely, every time i had a band just throw it down like they were at practice it came out pretty great.

the problem with the bleed was that i was trying to keep the guitars out of the drum mics. so i had the amps not very loud. which ended up equalling a mediocre tone AND tons of total shit sounding drum bleed in the amp mics.

so yeah, line up the amps at one end and have the drums at the other. you might be surprised how little bleed there is.

also, carpet doesn't do anything for you except kill your high end. 703 is your friend and the thicker the better.

[roygbiv]

Thanks for the suggestion MoreSpaceEcho

Maybe I'll give your suggestion a shot - I can dismantle the wooden fence/wall pretty easily, try moving the bass amp, and if we don't like it, just move everything back!

The only thing I"m recording down there is our band anyway, so it's no big deal to move stuff around.

I guess my real question is whether or not there is anything to be gained by keeping the makeshift gobo provided by the fence - and there is really only one way to find out (i.e., remove it and see what happens). But dang, that takes effort!