Do My Drums Sound Good? Please Analyze These (NEW) Clips

[akg414]

I've been using the Glyn Johns method in my basement, and have got some really nice results. Still, to me, my drums don't sound as "pro" as they can.

I've made sure the overheads are equally spaced (tape measure), and phase issues are under control. I've even delayed the tracks in Pro Tools so everything lines up.

Could it be because I'm used to my sound? I'm NOT a drummer, so I know that my playing doesn't help to hear who the drums 'should' be sounding.

Is there something the industry pro's do, that I'm missing? I'd like to get some opinions (and or suggestions) from everyone on how these babies sound.

I put together a 2 minute clip for analysis. Here's the details:

Sound Clip
www.thesecretsystemband.com/music/idby.mp3
www.thesecretsystemband.com/music/mouseeatsthesnake.mp3

Studio Photos (although the picture do not show Glyn Johns style)
http://www.thesecretsystemband.com/studio.htm

Method
I used the Glyn Johns style (for "overheads" - spaced 52 inches from the snare) plus spot microphones for the toms, snare and kick.

Room
10.5' wide by 12.5' deep and 7.5' high. There are "super chunk" bass traps in the corners in front of the kit - and plenty of 2'x4' acoustic panels hanging.

Drum Kit
(1998?) Tama Rock-Star, 5 piece.

Heads
Snare: Remo ambassador
Toms: Remo Pin-stripes
Kick: Evans (with the different foam rings)


Microphones & Pre-amps Used
Kick
-Microphone: AKG D12
-Pre Amp: Behringer Mic Pre

Snare
-Microphone: SM57
-Pre Amp: Mackie 8-bus preamps (spot)

Overheads (Glyn Johns style "top" & "side")
-Microphone: AKG 414
-Pre Amp: Universal Audio 2-610

Toms
-Microphone: Sennheiser 421 (gray)
-Pre Amp: Mackie 8 bus mic pre, Behringer Ultragain

Cymbals
-Microphone: AKG 414
-Pre Amp: Universal Audio 2-610

[chris harris]

1. what do "pro" drums sound like?

2. what are you not getting out of your drum sounds that you want to get?

3. that's a whole lotta tape on those drum heads. do you want a REALLY dead sound? or, is the tape just making up for poor tuning?

[akg414]

1. what do "pro" drums sound like?

2. what are you not getting out of your drum sounds that you want to get?

3. that's a whole lotta tape on those drum heads. do you want a REALLY dead sound? or, is the tape just making up for poor tuning?

The tape was removed (a while back) before the clips were made. The photos are really to show the room and kit.

Pro Drums sound like better. Sorry, don't have a definition, but just better. That's what my post is asking. Is it me, or do these sound bad?

[aaronburr]

what an unfortunate spelling mistake in the thread title hahaha

[@?,*???&?]

Playing is awful, but the sounds are okay. You're not hurting yourself here.

Contingent upon drummer/song/mix, you've got a decent starting place.

What you don't have with what you've done is a 'context'.

Pretty tough to do this stuff compltely on your own. That's sort of what makes music great- interacting with other human beings.

[akg414]

what an unfortunate spelling mistake in the thread title hahaha

fixed.

[fossiltooth]

Like morespaceecho, I don't know what "pro" sounds like either. To me it means it sounds "aesthetically appropriate for the material at hand" and "Making the most of available resources in money, time and talent." If by "sounding pro" you mean "sounding like a Falloutboy record" then, no, no they don't sound "pro"in that sense... But perhaps they're fine for what you'll be doing for now?

The drumming itself is a giant part of the equation here. Marketing puts so much stress on gear, but it's really fairly unimportant in comparison to so many other things. This drum sound could be beyond acceptable with some tweaking... and a much better performance. As you do this more and more, you'll be amazed by just how much performance effects our notions of "sound quality". It's huge. Even for seasoned professionals. Huge.

Playing is awful, but the sounds are okay. You're not hurting yourself here.

Contingent upon drummer/song/mix, you've got a decent starting place.

What you don't have with what you've done is a 'context'.

Pretty tough to do this stuff compltely on your own. That's sort of what makes music great- interacting with other human beings.

Wow Jeff.

This is easily among your smartest and truest posts ever.

More like this one!

Rock.

[akg414]

Playing is awful, but the sounds are okay.

Hence the DISCLAIMER that I'm not a drummer...

[fossiltooth]

Playing is awful, but the sounds are okay.

Hence the DISCLAIMER that I'm not a drummer...

As you do this more and more, you'll be amazed by just how much performance effects our notions of "sound quality". It's huge. Even for seasoned professionals. Huge.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

Like morespaceecho, I don't know what "pro" sounds like either.

i said no such thing!

but uh, yeah. who cares what pro sounds like. i care what GOOD sounds like.

i can't listen to the clip here at work for some reason. but like others have said, you can't really judge a drum sound if
1. the playing is terrible
2. it's out of context of a mix

re #1, on a recent session where the drummer was using my kit, i set up the mics and tuned the drums and everything the night before they arrived. with me playing it sounded perfectly ok, because while i'm no great drummer by any stretch, i know how to hit the stupid things so it comes out ok on tape. the drummer comes in, sits down, starts to play and it sounded TOTALLY DIFFERENT. and not nearly as good. because he hits them like he's petting a kitten. so i just adjusted things the best i could and got on with it.

re #2, it's not that hard to have good sounding drums in solo. how do they sound with 3 distorted guitars and an SVT bass in the mix? conversely, lots of times things that sound kind of shitty by themselves sound great in context of the mix.

so i am just saying post a clip of a real drummer playing a tune and we can give you a lot better feedback.

[akg414]

Like morespaceecho, I don't know what "pro" sounds like either.

i said no such thing!

but uh, yeah. who cares what pro sounds like. i care what GOOD sounds like.

i can't listen to the clip here at work for some reason. but like others have said, you can't really judge a drum sound if
1. the playing is terrible
2. it's out of context of a mix

re #1, on a recent session where the drummer was using my kit, i set up the mics and tuned the drums and everything the night before they arrived. with me playing it sounded perfectly ok, because while i'm no great drummer by any stretch, i know how to hit the stupid things so it comes out ok on tape. the drummer comes in, sits down, starts to play and it sounded TOTALLY DIFFERENT. and not nearly as good. because he hits them like he's petting a kitten. so i just adjusted things the best i could and got on with it.

re #2, it's not that hard to have good sounding drums in solo. how do they sound with 3 distorted guitars and an SVT bass in the mix? conversely, lots of times things that sound kind of shitty by themselves sound great in context of the mix.

so i am just saying post a clip of a real drummer playing a tune and we can give you a lot better feedback.

Thanks Scott - will do. (great response, btw)

[fossiltooth]

Like morespaceecho, I don't know what "pro" sounds like either.

i said no such thing!

but uh, yeah. who cares what pro sounds like. i care what GOOD sounds like.

Oops. It was "subatomic" who first made that comment. Credit where credit is due.

Give me a break! Both your names are vaguely "science-y" and you both say smart stuff most of the time, so I got it confused.

...won't happen again.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

MOST of the time????????????????????????????

my boss at my day job said to me the other day "now scott, you seem fairly intelligent...."

i snickered.

[lysander]

I think your toms sound great. The snare seems to be captured well too. It's got a bit of a ring, which could work well for some songs -- that's just how it's tuned.

To me, the kick could use the most attention, but that's just my unprofessional opinion. It's probably just the way it's being played, however -- it sounds like you're babying it. If you hit it with the authority that a good drummer would it might sound better to me.

I listened to those Queen multitracks of "Killer Queen" that went around a few months ago, and was surprised at how pedestrian and really unimpressive the snare and kick sounds were. But the toms were huge and amazing.

[dynomike]

If you want a "pro" sound, go to a professional studio, with a professional engineer, and a professional drummer.

Until then, just keep working on what you have. Don't obsess about using your tape measure and time-aligning shit. Very few of your favorite drum sounds do this. What most great drum sounds have in common is excellent playing and excellent TUNING. Keep working on the tuning and you'll be amazed at how much things can improve.

The kick pulls to the right really hard on this clip. Kind of disorienting. Keep moving the overhead mics around till you get a solid kick and snare in the center, WITHOUT time-aligning or flipping phase. They're the same mic, into the same pre - should be pretty easy. Then, add your kick and snare mics in there, and finally the toms. The overheads seem a bit hot compared to the close mics, so you could also try the opposite direction - getting great close mic sounds, then adding the overheads in, and see if that gets you close to what you want.

So much goes into getting a great drum sound... its hard for any of us to point at one thing and say "fix this"...