OK,
I'm having a little (huge!) dilemma deciding which mic's to buy. I currently have none (except for a 3 or 4 cheapo dynamics).
I have roughly around $1,000 to spend (maybe a bit more) and I feel i should really get as many "workhorse" mic's first rather than ONE really GREAT mic or a zillion cheapo ones.
My criteria would be for recording drums (congas, bongos included), guitars (electric and acoustic), vocals, bass. Just a typical rock band or even some folk acoustic.
So I'm thinking:
SM57
SM58
SM7
Stereo pair of condensers (This is what I'm clueless about)
And whatever else is recommended/possible with the said budget in mind.
I've been looking at the Studio Projects C3 (2 of them) for the condensers.
Thanks...
Mic's Decision Dilemma.
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Autodidact
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Mic's Decision Dilemma.
Formerly known as 'Perranfulo'
Why do people find the need to use the word "anal" in day to day conversation?
Why do people find the need to use the word "anal" in day to day conversation?
Decent choices...
At the risc of complicating things:
I'd research and listen to the Beyer M201. It's a pencil-style dynamic with a very smooth f.curve and a nice lift in the top-end. It's potentially more versatile than the SM5X's with a more "hifi" sound - but dearer. Though at least one '57 is mandatory.
RE: LDC's.
If your'e buying SP's as a pair, try to have them matched as much as possible, as chinese capsules can vary a fair bit. I have heard the C3 is a bit noisey.
I'd recommend the AT-40XX series for a listen BTW, the 4033 is particularly good on acoustic guitar. (you'd save here too, if you can get away with single-pattern mics).
At the risc of complicating things:
I'd research and listen to the Beyer M201. It's a pencil-style dynamic with a very smooth f.curve and a nice lift in the top-end. It's potentially more versatile than the SM5X's with a more "hifi" sound - but dearer. Though at least one '57 is mandatory.
RE: LDC's.
If your'e buying SP's as a pair, try to have them matched as much as possible, as chinese capsules can vary a fair bit. I have heard the C3 is a bit noisey.
I'd recommend the AT-40XX series for a listen BTW, the 4033 is particularly good on acoustic guitar. (you'd save here too, if you can get away with single-pattern mics).
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Judas Jetski
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I don't have a whole lot more than a grand tied up in my mics, but I've been very careful about my mic acquisition as well. Here's how I built my assemblage:
For the stuff I'm doing, drums and vocals are key. So I put a lot of effort into decent drum mics and vocal mics. For the drums I spent the most on a Beta 52 for bass drum. That blew my drum-mic budget, so a friend gave me a Unidyne III which sounds fantastic on snare (SM-77 is also a good choice for snare but might not be as versatile and might be hard to find). I had to use a pair of Shure-built Radio Shack electrets (garage sale, $40--probably about the same on eBay) for room mics, but it wasn't so hard to get good sounds since the snare and bass were well-covered. My pair of EV-635a's (omni--also a gift from a friend) would sound better but my drum room sucks sonically and I really needed to go X-Y to control the room sound. I've recently upgraded room mics a pair of Oktava(mod) MK-012s; if I ever get around to using more than four mics on a drum set I'll use the 635a's for close-miking toms.
For vocals I used (and still use) an Oktava(mod) MK-319 (I also have a 219 that I got on-the-cheap and had Michael mod them both at once). Both mics sound great. I can't imagine them ever becoming obsolete for my purposes. Even if I luck into a $15 U-47 at a garage sale I can't imagine not having some use for these mics, so I consider my money very well-spent here. Seems like you could get a used 219 or 319 on eBay and have Michael mod the thing while staying under $450.
Since guitar sound isn't so absolutely crucial to the stuff I'm doing, I find ways to make the mics I have work on guitar as well. I figure that if I can mic the room well enough to make a drum set sound good, I can probably get something decent from a guitar amp with the same gear. If I find the need to specialize I'll probably do that later, but I haven't found that need yet.
When I'm mixing, I focus on room sound and overall mix rather than getting any one instrument to sound perfect. It still takes me a long time to get the sounds I want, but I can usually get them with the mics I have. I don't really consider any of my mics to be super-expensive or rare, but none of them are really "studio workhorses" either.
A tight budget can be a good thing, because it helps you set priorities. $1000 should be enough money to build a solid foundation. Remember, there are a lot of ways to save money without compromising mic performance: Buy used from someone you trust. Avoid flavor-of-the-month, because you'll be paying for the popularity of the gear that way--and really who cares about that? Remember that a good mic of the "wrong" type will probably be more useful than a crappy mic that's "right."
If your heart is absolutely set on the list you have, I'd say you could do a whole lot worse. It looks pretty solid. I'd just suggest that you get one thing with a little more "sparkle." Remember, you want to inspire the people you're recording (and yourself) and workhorse gear is rarely inspirational--maybe a standout LDC for vocals?
For the stuff I'm doing, drums and vocals are key. So I put a lot of effort into decent drum mics and vocal mics. For the drums I spent the most on a Beta 52 for bass drum. That blew my drum-mic budget, so a friend gave me a Unidyne III which sounds fantastic on snare (SM-77 is also a good choice for snare but might not be as versatile and might be hard to find). I had to use a pair of Shure-built Radio Shack electrets (garage sale, $40--probably about the same on eBay) for room mics, but it wasn't so hard to get good sounds since the snare and bass were well-covered. My pair of EV-635a's (omni--also a gift from a friend) would sound better but my drum room sucks sonically and I really needed to go X-Y to control the room sound. I've recently upgraded room mics a pair of Oktava(mod) MK-012s; if I ever get around to using more than four mics on a drum set I'll use the 635a's for close-miking toms.
For vocals I used (and still use) an Oktava(mod) MK-319 (I also have a 219 that I got on-the-cheap and had Michael mod them both at once). Both mics sound great. I can't imagine them ever becoming obsolete for my purposes. Even if I luck into a $15 U-47 at a garage sale I can't imagine not having some use for these mics, so I consider my money very well-spent here. Seems like you could get a used 219 or 319 on eBay and have Michael mod the thing while staying under $450.
Since guitar sound isn't so absolutely crucial to the stuff I'm doing, I find ways to make the mics I have work on guitar as well. I figure that if I can mic the room well enough to make a drum set sound good, I can probably get something decent from a guitar amp with the same gear. If I find the need to specialize I'll probably do that later, but I haven't found that need yet.
When I'm mixing, I focus on room sound and overall mix rather than getting any one instrument to sound perfect. It still takes me a long time to get the sounds I want, but I can usually get them with the mics I have. I don't really consider any of my mics to be super-expensive or rare, but none of them are really "studio workhorses" either.
A tight budget can be a good thing, because it helps you set priorities. $1000 should be enough money to build a solid foundation. Remember, there are a lot of ways to save money without compromising mic performance: Buy used from someone you trust. Avoid flavor-of-the-month, because you'll be paying for the popularity of the gear that way--and really who cares about that? Remember that a good mic of the "wrong" type will probably be more useful than a crappy mic that's "right."
If your heart is absolutely set on the list you have, I'd say you could do a whole lot worse. It looks pretty solid. I'd just suggest that you get one thing with a little more "sparkle." Remember, you want to inspire the people you're recording (and yourself) and workhorse gear is rarely inspirational--maybe a standout LDC for vocals?
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Autodidact
- gettin' sounds
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- Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:35 pm
- Location: Chula Vista, Ca
Thanks for the replies.
I'm am definitely not set on the mic list. But from what I know and the research I've done, the mic's I've mentioned so far seem to have the most practicality and variety of applications they can be used for.
I'm really having trouble on deciding what condensers to buy. I want preferably a matched pair of LDC's so I can use them for multiple applications (i.e; drum overheads, vocals, stereo acoustic guitar, mono acoustic guitar, etc...)
I'm am definitely not set on the mic list. But from what I know and the research I've done, the mic's I've mentioned so far seem to have the most practicality and variety of applications they can be used for.
I'm really having trouble on deciding what condensers to buy. I want preferably a matched pair of LDC's so I can use them for multiple applications (i.e; drum overheads, vocals, stereo acoustic guitar, mono acoustic guitar, etc...)
Formerly known as 'Perranfulo'
Why do people find the need to use the word "anal" in day to day conversation?
Why do people find the need to use the word "anal" in day to day conversation?
Check into cascade mics. I did not know about them and after TO feedback on them. I just got them. The fat heads stereo pair (is what I got) and for the money I find them to be very very nice. I am very happy with them. Plus they look nice (which does not matter, but usually cheap mics look like poop).
It also depends on how many players you need to track at once. If you are going down the live band route, then a spread of solid workhorse dynamics might be best. If you're just overdubbing people one at a time, you can probably afford to look into slightly pricier options. Buying used will also get you more mic for your money.
I've got a tiny home-studio mic cabinet that resembles your wish list pretty closely, and I guess my only recommendation would be to pick up a ribbon mic if you have any money left. They have a really unique flavour and I'm constantly reaching for mine to use on bright or brittle-sounding sources (fiddle springs to mind...); I also love them as drum OHs. I don't want to recommend any brands as I haven't tried enough of them, but I think a lot of the Chinese ones are made in the same factory anyway. Or not. How's that for solid research?
About the pair of condensers....
I have an MXL 603S Mogami which I think is solid. I've never recorded something and said "that stinks". And I've often recorded something and said "I doubt I'll have to get something better than this mic for a while". I was using a Focusrite Preamp (in terms of full disclosure) and acoustic guitar.
Hope this helps.
Thanks,
LL
I have an MXL 603S Mogami which I think is solid. I've never recorded something and said "that stinks". And I've often recorded something and said "I doubt I'll have to get something better than this mic for a while". I was using a Focusrite Preamp (in terms of full disclosure) and acoustic guitar.
Hope this helps.
Thanks,
LL
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fossiltooth
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Answer 1: How many sessions can you book at a better equipped studio for $1000 bucks? There are plenty of studios, right in your neighborhood even at $20/hr that have significantly better mics than the ones you can buy with $1000 bucks. They may have already treated their rooms a little bit as well. Use available resources!
I apologize in advance for how off-topic my post may appear. I'm clearly using your thread as a platform for my own agenda, so take me with a grain of salt. I just feel that we have to wrestle some of our musical economy back from gear manufacturers. Too many home studios are fragmenting the culture of music, and driving us all away from eachother. All this ubiquitous gear marketing is causing neurotic, obsessive musicians to become even more neurotic and obsessive instead of constantly playing and making music. This unfortunate "culture of gear" means less "rocking out". That my friend, does not rock. Somedays it seems that all of the musicians who are really good at listening are becoming audio engineers instead of musicians! That sucks for all of us! Want a hobby? Try guitar! It's fun!
Want to obsess over gear? Go buy an awesome stereo system, a bunch of records and get really into that. It's fun! I feel that this version of the modern home-recording culture has a lot more to do with the displacement of Hi-Fi Culture following that advent of mp3s and earbuds, than it has to do with old school DIY culture.
Answer 2 (non soapbox version): If you really need to record drums at home, Sennheiser makes some drum pack for under a thousand bucks. I think Audix makes one too. You might even have a little bread left over for some cheap $300 LDC for other stuff. Alternately, you could just get a nice LDC, a decent dynamic, and go to outside studios for basics. That's probably what I would do, especially if I was more interested in being a musician than an engineer.
I apologize in advance for how off-topic my post may appear. I'm clearly using your thread as a platform for my own agenda, so take me with a grain of salt. I just feel that we have to wrestle some of our musical economy back from gear manufacturers. Too many home studios are fragmenting the culture of music, and driving us all away from eachother. All this ubiquitous gear marketing is causing neurotic, obsessive musicians to become even more neurotic and obsessive instead of constantly playing and making music. This unfortunate "culture of gear" means less "rocking out". That my friend, does not rock. Somedays it seems that all of the musicians who are really good at listening are becoming audio engineers instead of musicians! That sucks for all of us! Want a hobby? Try guitar! It's fun!
Want to obsess over gear? Go buy an awesome stereo system, a bunch of records and get really into that. It's fun! I feel that this version of the modern home-recording culture has a lot more to do with the displacement of Hi-Fi Culture following that advent of mp3s and earbuds, than it has to do with old school DIY culture.
Answer 2 (non soapbox version): If you really need to record drums at home, Sennheiser makes some drum pack for under a thousand bucks. I think Audix makes one too. You might even have a little bread left over for some cheap $300 LDC for other stuff. Alternately, you could just get a nice LDC, a decent dynamic, and go to outside studios for basics. That's probably what I would do, especially if I was more interested in being a musician than an engineer.
I recommend:
Audix D6 or Sennheiser 602 (around $200) for kick
Pair of AT 4041's for OH and acoustic guitar (less than $400)
Pair of 57's for snare and just because ($200)
Leaves you $200 for a LDC.
So find another $200 and get a used 4050.
There.
$200 over budget and you can do anything.
And on the drum kit do this: 57 on snare top and 57 on snare bottom.
Kick mic on kick drum (hmmmm how'd I know that...) and two small condensers on OH and be done with it. If you can get away with just the Kick and OH so much the better.
Any of the above that you can buy used, do it. The better your LDC, the more happy you will be in the long run.
And then you can start buying preamps. Wheeee. The fun has only just begun.
After having said all that, you know what? I agree with Fossiltooth, completely.
(but I sell pro audio gear, so I do want people to buy gear!)
Audix D6 or Sennheiser 602 (around $200) for kick
Pair of AT 4041's for OH and acoustic guitar (less than $400)
Pair of 57's for snare and just because ($200)
Leaves you $200 for a LDC.
So find another $200 and get a used 4050.
There.
$200 over budget and you can do anything.
And on the drum kit do this: 57 on snare top and 57 on snare bottom.
Kick mic on kick drum (hmmmm how'd I know that...) and two small condensers on OH and be done with it. If you can get away with just the Kick and OH so much the better.
Any of the above that you can buy used, do it. The better your LDC, the more happy you will be in the long run.
And then you can start buying preamps. Wheeee. The fun has only just begun.
After having said all that, you know what? I agree with Fossiltooth, completely.
(but I sell pro audio gear, so I do want people to buy gear!)
Fuck yes!fossiltooth wrote:Want to obsess over gear? Go buy an awesome stereo system, a bunch of records and get really into that. It's fun! I feel that this version of the modern home-recording culture has a lot more to do with the displacement of Hi-Fi Culture following that advent of mp3s and earbuds, than it has to do with old school DIY culture.
My first real purchase in audio was not a cheap prosumer flavor of the month microphone with a mid suckout and presence peak, but rather, a stereo system worth in excess of $6K, that I got used for a great price, that bests the mains at many mastering houses. Along with a kickin' record collection, and over 3 years of listening for hours everyday, I gained an appreciation of music, the art of recording, and good audio electronics I wish I had been able to gain much earlier.
I'd go to a studio.
Real friends stab you in the front.
Oscar Wilde
Failed audio engineer & pro studio tech turned Component level motherboard repair store in New York
Oscar Wilde
Failed audio engineer & pro studio tech turned Component level motherboard repair store in New York
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GooberNumber9
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I own the Audix drum mic pack, and it's great for live sound reinforcement. I think it sucks for recording. My best drums sound by far at this point has been using the Recorderman technique. If I were starting again, knowing what I know now, I'd get two nice LDCs (KSM-27s? Oktavas?) for most things (overheads, vocals, room mics, acoustics, etc.) and some SM-57s to start out with for close-ups on snare, kick, etc. With the money I would have "saved", I'd go for maybe a couple EH 12AY7s and then start saving for my first multi-pattern (KSM-44, AT4050, something like that).fossiltooth wrote:Answer 2 (non soapbox version): If you really need to record drums at home, Sennheiser makes some drum pack for under a thousand bucks. I think Audix makes one too. You might even have a little bread left over for some cheap $300 LDC for other stuff. Alternately, you could just get a nice LDC, a decent dynamic, and go to outside studios for basics. That's probably what I would do, especially if I was more interested in being a musician than an engineer.
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