100+ tracks for one song

[JGriffin]

But when you hear the track... can anyone "really" tell how many vocals were used? It's a shmear of reverb-drenched BeeGees that cannot be discerned, or defined.

well, yeah. but maybe that's how they wanted it to sound.

i mean, do you like the way def leppard's "hysteria" sounds? me neither, but the band was PSYCHED. who are we to say what's acceptable and what isn't?

Dude, this is scary. I was about to post the same thing, Def Leppard and all.

[Jeff White]

I like having an unlimited amount of tracks to use in Digital Performer, however, except for film audio, I've never gone crazy with track counts. I agree with the poster who mentioned vocals on separate tracks or track groups for verse, chorus, bridge, etc. Sure, you could combine all of these tracks down tetris-style and have them fit within a 24-32 track block, but having the space for more intimate processing for groups without having to setup crazy automation is a more simple method of working.

I one had someone over at Unicornation (DP messageboard) tell me that if a song wasn't 100+ tracks it wasn't a professional recording. I feel like that's an extremely arrogant and uneducated thought.

Anyway, for pop/indie/rock stuff, I probably never have more than 24-32 tracks occurring simultaneously, and a bulk of those are strings and vocals. I feel like that's the norm with the way that I work.

Jeff

[RefD]

I one had someone over at Unicornation (DP messageboard) tell me that if a song wasn't 100+ tracks it wasn't a professional recording.

that's pretty messed up.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

Dude, this is scary. I was about to post the same thing, Def Leppard and all.

great minds....great fucking minds...

right, anyway, i just watched the hysteria classic albums DVD last week, and i have to say i was really really impressed by it. not my kind of sonics at all, but it was really interesting to hear how into it the band were, all the little nuances they considered, from the lyrics to the backing vox to the guitar tones, to the guitar parts themselves. made me wanna buy the record.

[JGriffin]

Dude, this is scary. I was about to post the same thing, Def Leppard and all.

great minds....great fucking minds...

right, anyway, i just watched the hysteria classic albums DVD last week, and i have to say i was really really impressed by it. not my kind of sonics at all, but it was really interesting to hear how into it the band were, all the little nuances they considered, from the lyrics to the backing vox to the guitar tones, to the guitar parts themselves. made me wanna buy the record.

Cool. I'll have to watch that.

Did you ever hear the story about how Foreigner's producer printed stuff so hot to tape to get his "sound" that if a musician messed up a part they had to just start fresh on a new track because the erase head would never completely get rid of the previous signal?

That one floated around during college.

[RefD]

Did you ever hear the story about how Foreigner's producer printed stuff so hot to tape to get his "sound" that if a musician messed up a part they had to just start fresh on a new track because the erase head would never completely get rid of the previous signal?

so a Foreigner tracking session went something like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty-1zWsXFNs

[MoreSpaceEcho]

i never heard that story. it's a good one, but i am more than a little dubious. i mean i buy that the erase head maybe couldn't get rid of it, but if they were recording another take over it at a similarly ridiculous level, why would it even matter?

[Jay Reynolds]

Did you ever hear the story about how Foreigner's producer printed stuff so hot to tape to get his "sound" that if a musician messed up a part they had to just start fresh on a new track because the erase head would never completely get rid of the previous signal?

so a Foreigner tracking session went something like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty-1zWsXFNs

Please tell me you're not tracking with that old, over-rated thing. All the real studios are using the SDF1.

[@?,*???&?]

There's a gearslutz thread going asking if people use more than 128 tracks -- to record songs (i.e., not a movie situation where you've got music, dialogue, and foley to deal with). There have been multiple responses from people who at least break the three figure barrier.

The thread cites some reasons why, e.g., stacking bg vox using one singer, building up a sampled orchestra with one keyboard player, etc..

Still . . . 100+ tracks? Can anyone hear the difference? Don't all the little tracks quarrel with each another?

Please explain, I feel old and stupid.

This has an easy explanation : Dumb Insecure musicians that throw everything AND the kitchen sink to a crap song, in the hopes it will somehow become "something" other than the steaming poo it really is.

Here's a great litmus test for any song:

Have it played with ONLY one voice and one instrument, like guitar or piano.

If it works there, then it is a good song. No Worky? Throw it out BEFORE spending months trying to get it to work.

Most great artists do this with their producer / band before investing any time on a song that may or may not have potential.

I think the overavailability of plug-ins and "pro-sumer "vintage-like" hardware is only contributing to this mediocrity. As in "ooohh let's try this brand new vintage mic with this new plugin-ificator on it, I'm SURE it will make the song that much better / vibeier / catchier / cooler / a HIT"... not...

Cheers

This sounds so un tape-op, but is so true.

If I'm given two guitar parts to balance, fine. If I get 70+ tracks of bullshit parts that I have to weed through like a swamp until it sounds like a song, I am so quoting 3x my regular rate for the project, with no feeling of guilt.

I recently recorded this stuff for a well known vocal coach. I didn't finish in time for my next session, because he was too stoned. He spent the three hours I spent with my other session getting stoned, and the proceeding five hours to 4 AM, which I charged him for, getting stoned as we recorded new parts for this, approximately 1:37 long segment over a loop I made of his partner's song.

He kept adding these parts that made NO FUCKING SENSE whatsoever. And when one wouldn't work, he'd add another one.. like a voice saying hello at a weird time, then another one saying hello in a high voice, and ask me to "make an effect, I dunno, do what you engineers do! it'll work!"

the best part is how the lead vocal was him before being stoned, so you had a basis of comparison.

I wound up with like 175 tracks of garbage answering each other and doing all sorts of weird shit.

Holy crap! I love Garbage! I'd record Shirley Manson 24/7 for free...has anyone seen her?

btw, check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJwFoXdNklg

[MoreSpaceEcho]

must you make that same joke every single time someone types the word garbage?

[Young Winston]

must you make that same joke every single time someone types the word garbage?

Garbage? Holy crap! I love Garbage! I'd record Butch Vig 24/7 for free...has anyone seen him?

[JGriffin]

i never heard that story. it's a good one, but i am more than a little dubious. i mean i buy that the erase head maybe couldn't get rid of it, but if they were recording another take over it at a similarly ridiculous level, why would it even matter?

Totally. That's why I never quite bought it either.

edit: oh, snap! Foreigner 4 was produced by Mutt Lange!

So the anecdote in question might be him or Roy Thomas Baker, or maybe even Mick Jones, who produced a bunch of Foreigner records. Or about 6 other people. Who knows.

[RefD]

Did you ever hear the story about how Foreigner's producer printed stuff so hot to tape to get his "sound" that if a musician messed up a part they had to just start fresh on a new track because the erase head would never completely get rid of the previous signal?

so a Foreigner tracking session went something like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty-1zWsXFNs

Please tell me you're not tracking with that old, over-rated thing. All the real studios are using the SDF1.

*fires the wave motion gun at your mom*

[Jay Reynolds]

Did you ever hear the story about how Foreigner's producer printed stuff so hot to tape to get his "sound" that if a musician messed up a part they had to just start fresh on a new track because the erase head would never completely get rid of the previous signal?

so a Foreigner tracking session went something like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty-1zWsXFNs

Please tell me you're not tracking with that old, over-rated thing. All the real studios are using the SDF1.

*fires the wave motion gun at your mom*

That's not a wave motion gun. Or if it is, its pretty tiny

[RefD]

Did you ever hear the story about how Foreigner's producer printed stuff so hot to tape to get his "sound" that if a musician messed up a part they had to just start fresh on a new track because the erase head would never completely get rid of the previous signal?

so a Foreigner tracking session went something like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty-1zWsXFNs

Please tell me you're not tracking with that old, over-rated thing. All the real studios are using the SDF1.

*fires the wave motion gun at your mom*

That's not a wave motion gun. Or if it is, its pretty tiny

keep your eyes on YOUR urinal, buddy!