EP, LP, and in between

[RefD]

we have a winner.

i was gonna say "thick as shit in the neck of a bottle", but that might've been going too far.

[bunny]

i like the idea already suggested (smash?) of making ONE 100% rad album of the 10 to 13 BEST songs out of the 30. just cut the ones that aren't the best, or aren't working out... they should be easy to identify even before songs are all the way finished.

if you still want to release gradually, then do the same process but put out two 6 or 7 song EPs (or are they called "vanity EPs" now?). got a couple extra tracks that are good enough but not fitting into the album/ep? put them on your website/myspace. be done with it. just don't be afraid to leave songs behind.

EDITING is so difficult for some people. maybe [artist] made ONE ok song that people liked. that doesn't mean [artist] needs to put out another hour long album of boring self-indulgent bullshit EVERY TIME THEY PICK UP A GUITAR.

[JGriffin]

the OP isn't asking anyone if his songs are any good. he seems to like them, so i say we give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he's ok at what he does. rather than assuming he sucks and is completely deluded about his abilities and needs to post stuff on myspace to get feedback from strangers as to how he could be better.

I think from now on, anytime someone starts a thread asking about a specific technique or idea, someone needs to challenge the quality of the songwriting somewhere in the first 3 posts.

Q: I'm trying to get my heavy guitars to sit better in my doom rock mixes. Any tricks I should know from folks who record/mix doom rock?

A: Are your songs any good? You can't possibly be objective, but are they?

Q: Does anyone have opinions on whether to use an RE20 or an SM7 on a male baritone voice? I'm doing Wilco-esque songs with a Tom Petty-ish vocal, though not as reedy.

A: Do your songs suck? I bet your songs suck.

Q: Would a LDC be better or worse than a SDC for recording mandolin overdubs?

A: Are your songs any good? I'm betting they aren't, since you don't have a barcode.

I think this is the way TOMB should operate from here on out.

Demos have existed for years.

Maybe this artist needs to ask what the main intent of the recording is- and yes, that means, will it be a legitimate release with a barcode?

You must have missed the point. Nevermind.


Anyway, um, any idiot with a credit card can have a CD with a barcode. Doesn't mean it's a "legitimate release," and it especially doesn't mean the songs or the recordings are any good.

[@?,*???&?]

i like the idea already suggested (smash?) of making ONE 100% rad album of the 10 to 13 BEST songs out of the 30. just cut the ones that aren't the best, or aren't working out... they should be easy to identify even before songs are all the way finished.

if you still want to release gradually, then do the same process but put out two 6 or 7 song EPs (or are they called "vanity EPs" now?). got a couple extra tracks that are good enough but not fitting into the album/ep? put them on your website/myspace. be done with it. just don't be afraid to leave songs behind.

EDITING is so difficult for some people. maybe [artist] made ONE ok song that people liked. that doesn't mean [artist] needs to put out another hour long album of boring self-indulgent bullshit EVERY TIME THEY PICK UP A GUITAR.

The voice of reason!!

[tdbajus]

Shooting for drum tracks on about 30 tunes.

I think you said it all right there! I guess anything can work. But in my experience, it seems like you'd be setting yourself up to under-realize all of the songs.


Sorry MoreSpace, but I have to agree with JR's point for once, if not his attitude. Self-Editing is good. Have you ever heard the Frank Black solo album "Teenager of the Year"? Most people haven't. That's because there's 22 songs on it....

Personally, I love EPs. They often seem to hold together really well- a lot of the time tthere seems to be a strong common thread that runs though them in ways that only the best LPs do. And there is rarely any filler.

The thing that I have been recording lately was supposed to be a double EP on one CD- very spare, skeletal versions of the songs (the "live" version) and then some remix of the songs with noise loops, drum machines, weird sounds.

I read somewhere quite a while back about how the length of CDs was making for lousy albums. The guy's point was that when you were making an LP, you had to make two 20-25 minute pieces with a beginning, middle and and end, choosing songs carefully, and making each album side flow.

With the 75+ minutes on a CD, you can pretty much throw anything that you've recorded onto the end of it, and throw it out to the world.

He brings up the Chili Pepper's "Blood Sugar Sex Magic" as an example, and i have to say he does have a point. Certainly it doesn't help that Anthony Whatshisname kinda rubs me the wrong way, but that does seem to be a very, very, very long record, with a lot of redundant material on it. Any way you slice it, if you have 20 songs you can drop on, but are limited to only putting out 12, odds are good you are going to have a stronger record/CD.

Of course, when you are so constrained by so little time, a lot of the cool little weird sonic experiments would never make the cut. Though I guess that's what the out-takes records are for.

Anyhow, the point to the long winded ramble is that I kind of like the idea of you releasing them as EPs periodically. Putting four or five songs together seems harder than putting 12 songs together- you really have to sweat it out. You might find that your material winds up arranging itself in interesting ways if you break them up into 4 song blocks.

Or, I could be on the crack. Mmmm. Crack.

[wedge]

ONE 100% rad album of the 10 to 13 BEST songs out of the 30

I'm sorry, but do you have the ability to pick out the best songs of the bunch?!? Maybe the songs *you* pick will be the worstz...

[aaronaustin]

thanks for all the replies. There's some great stuff in here amidst the shenanigans (and I've enjoyed the shenanigans just as much). Just to let it be known, I actually had already whittled down the songs from over 50 to 30 or so, so this wasn't all of my crap. Anyhoo, reality set in yesterday. I realized some phase problems with the drums I hadn't noticed before, so we're going to have to redo some stuff (even though the mics seem to be in the exact same place--damn sound waves with all their crests and troughs). So, I've picked out 12 songs that we know really well--the ones that you feel just have to make it on a cd. These songs have been played out quite a bit and road tested. It is basically the tracks for the first two EPs that I had planned on releasing. The two sets of 6 songs fit really well together, but the material seems a bit disparate together. It actually started me thinking last night about what tdbajus just mentioned. What about two EPs on one CD? An A side and B side. Anybody done that around here?

[tdbajus]

What about two EPs on one CD? An A side and B side. Anybody done that around here?

Well, in this era of digital downloads, the EPs seem a better value for people who just want to check you out. CDs seem to be, these days, just non-biodegradable landfill.

I'm sure I'm going to take some well deserved abuse for this, but 99% of the music listening i do for pleasure winds up being on the ol' iTunes, and I about 75% of the stuff i have bought these days has been on the Amazon, whose high bitrate MP3s sound pretty good on the headphones.

I haven't really thought this through all the way, but I think that the only CDs we'll physically press will be for promotional purposes, and come in a nice package, possible with a t-shirt for extra brownie points.

Some guys I know did their last release one super sexy white vinyl that came with a coupon for a free uncompressed (i think uncompressed) digital download, which I think is brilliant, if pretty pricey.

I always loved that Fugazi released a couple of CDs with the preceding EP tacked on at the end. I think it is nice when the band tries to, rather than squeeze every cent they can out of their fans, give them the most for their buck.

[bunny]

I'm sorry, but do you have the ability to pick out the best songs of the bunch?!? Maybe the songs *you* pick will be the worstz...

true.

i might think the 12-minute-synth-drone-and-insect-soundscape is "better" than the straightforward pop number that matches the other dozen pop numbers that are already starters...

"best" is subjective, maybe i should have said "favorite". and if your legions of fans are demanding a recorded version of a song you dumped, then what's the problem? don't you WANT some work to do?

[MoreSpaceEcho]

work? can't i just have the legions of fans?

[wedge]

I'm sorry, but do you have the ability to pick out the best songs of the bunch?!? Maybe the songs *you* pick will be the worstz...

Just for the record, that was a swipe at Mister You-Don't-Know-What-You're-Doing,-So-Give-Up-Already, whomever he may be...

[JGriffin]

work? can't i just have the legions of fans?

Oo! can I have one to surge on me, sir?

[kung_fu_elvis]

If the material flows better on two EP's, then do it.

I think that's a neat idea, having a Side A, Side B... I think it would bookend nicely.

[RefD]

Oo! can I have one to surge on me, sir?

one of my fave lines from that film!

i also like the idea of EPs.

[signorMars]

EPs are harder to recoup your pressing costs, since you'd have to be a real ass to sell an EP for $10... but god i love the format of an EP. they're also easier to sell, since they are a lower price and a less intimidating amount of material for the potential fan to become familiar with. of course, if you have a "guaranteed" market for the number of CDs necessary to recover your manufacturing costs, than go for it.

i've seen a few CDs here and there organized into a Side A and Side B... it's a neat idea, especially if you get the sequencing right, but i'm pretty sure that the only people who would notice are talking to you on this board right now. the rest will just cherry pick THEIR favorite songs when they download it off iTunes.