Those new "Classic Vibe" Squiers

calaverasgrandes · Post by **calaverasgrandes** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:34 am

exactly, they have been making guitars in Japan for several generations now so its caught up with us. As far as Korea, most all the Korean guitars are made by Samick. They are about as good as Peavey.
(I own a peavey) But I hate the fret work coming out of there. I basically find Chinese guitars to be shrill and kinda boring.
As far as generalising about China. Its not a melting pot like the US (or to a lesser extent the EU). Its majority Han culture which is in fact the majority culture of the earth at this point. Also one of the oldest. Minorities like Mongols, Tibetans, Uyghurs etc are neglected or worse.
Hey I dont have a problem with Chinese. I would estimate that a third of my DVDs are hong kong films, and I have a bunch of Vcds too. I've read Sun Tzu, The I Ching etc. Most of my porn ... well nevermind.
I'd rather have an old Teisco or Silvertone. If I want a shitty guitar I want shit with character!

DrummerMan · Post by **DrummerMan** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:01 pm

Not for nothing, but there CERTAINLY traditions of fretted and bowed instruments in China going back a fuckload longer than the invention of the modern western guitar, for example:

the Yueqin, or Moon Guitar

and the Erhu

just sayin'...

inverseroom · Post by **inverseroom** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:05 pm

My wife just bought a Chinese-made eBay fiddle for $140 that pretty much kicks ass for the dough.

It's impossible to generalize. And I wouldn't be surprised if China is making instruments in ten years that rival Japan's 80's output.

calaverasgrandes · Post by **calaverasgrandes** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:27 pm

DrummerMan wrote:Not for nothing, but there CERTAINLY traditions of fretted and bowed instruments in China going back a fuckload longer than the invention of the modern western guitar, for example:

the Yueqin, or Moon Guitar

and the Erhu

just sayin'...

great examples! The er hu (sp?) has no frets.The yue qin has wood or bone frets? These are neat instruments but do not trace back to the gamba or oud as most western/mid-eastern instruments do.
Now I would like to see what India could do if they put their mind to making a decent guitar. They have a much deeper musical tradition than the west. They also have very ancient woodworking and metalsmithing skills. Not quite as good as Japan IMHO. But I have seen some very fine metalwork come out of India recently. With the middle class growing in India I could maybe hope for some boutique guitars a la Sadowsky Metro?

As far as china and violins. They have a lot of respect for western classical music in china. I think it may have to do with the sheer size of our orchestras and the level of mastery one has to attain to be an orchestral musician. Have you ever seen an orchestra audition musicians?
I worked at Davies symphony hall in SF for a bit. (MTT!)
They build a long scrim cloth tunnel from the green room out to the stage, pad the floor so you cant hear the size or gender of the approaching musician, then they perform behind a screen.
That's the kind of western culture that eastern minds seem to love.
It also bears mentioning that the violin family is fretless. Its just easier to make from a practical standpoint than a guitar,bass, banjo etc with frets.

comfortstarr · Post by **comfortstarr** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:12 am

Ha... man, you're breathtaking...

Gentleman Jim · Post by **Gentleman Jim** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:46 am

calaverasgrandes wrote:

It also bears mentioning that the violin family is fretless. Its just easier to make from a practical standpoint than a guitar,bass, banjo etc with frets.

Now that's just sillytalk. I don't know what to do with that if you're actually serious.

It's freeing sometimes to just say "Huh, maybe you're right and I'm kinda talking nonsense." You should try it once or twice.

As for the sweeping generalizations about the plurality,(not the majority), of the world's population, my friend has a great line that I think applies:

"There are two kinds of people in the world - those who divide everyone into two groups and those who don't. I'm one of the people who doesn't."

calaverasgrandes · Post by **calaverasgrandes** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:21 pm

Gentleman Jim wrote:calaverasgrandes wrote:

It also bears mentioning that the violin family is fretless. Its just easier to make from a practical standpoint than a guitar,bass, banjo etc with frets.
Now that's just sillytalk. I don't know what to do with that if you're actually serious.

It's freeing sometimes to just say "Huh, maybe you're right and I'm kinda talking nonsense." You should try it once or twice.

As for the sweeping generalizations about the plurality,(not the majority), of the world's population, my friend has a great line that I think applies:

"There are two kinds of people in the world - those who divide everyone into two groups and those who don't. I'm one of the people who doesn't."

You could also take some mind opening pills yourself.
I am actually quite educated about eastern culture. i have been buddhist since a very young age. I have studied a lot of non western sources for many years. It's not bigotry to recognize that cultures are different.
I have about as much contempt for new agers practicing Feng Shui as a do for Chinese gutiar makers. Which is to say none. I just like to go to the source when I want the genuine article. Solid body guitars are from the USA.

The animosity I display towards pacific rim luthiers is because a few years ago I went on a quest to get teh perfect bass guitar. It is very difficult to find an american made instrument in retail outlets these days! Your choices are pretty much limited to Fender, Gibson and Musicman. Unless you want to step into the boutique instrument world of $2500 + axes.
i also found all of the G&L tribute, Spector, fender, epiphone etc to be universally crappy sounding and badly put together. If you want to settle for such poorly made gear that is your own choice.
Its like I say about behringer, just becuase it passes audio doesnt mean it sounds good.

RefD · Post by **RefD** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:55 pm

i don't think Fender has made a decent guitar since around 1990.

*pulls up trousers and runs*

casey campbell · Post by **casey campbell** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:05 am

RefD wrote:i don't think Fender has made a decent guitar since around 1990.

*pulls up trousers and runs*

except for the fender tele that i own. i have the only fender guitar in the world that has been built after 1990 that is decent....

bluesman · Post by **bluesman** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:37 pm

Actually, I think the quality began running thin on Fender guitars around early 1992....purely by coincidence I own a 1991 Strat........just a coincidence mind you!

suppositron · Post by **suppositron** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:03 pm

this is just the same crap they've been selling cheap for years accept these are made in china

Uh uh, dude, they were CRAFTED in China! See the quality that went into them!

I mean no disrespect, either. My first guitar was a mid nineties squier strat. Made in korea. Biggest piece' I've ever owned. Shit tuners. Shit pickups. Shit wiring. Shit pickup selector. I can't see them making those guitars much better.

calaverasgrandes · Post by **calaverasgrandes** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:01 pm

just went and did some guitar tech work for a freind of a friend.
He bought an acoustic bass from an online retailer.
Brand new out of the box the dang thing wont give enough neck relief for the stings to ring. The trussrod doesnt appear to be connected to anything inside the neck. You can crank it all the way clockwise and all the way counter clockwise and it makes no difference in neck relief.
on the back of the headstock?
"made in China"
It bears mentioning here that there are not as many manufacturers of instruments in China as there are brnads over here. My sources tell me that you can count them on one hand. Maybe as few as 3.

nestle · Post by **nestle** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:05 pm

calaverasgrandes wrote:"crafted in china"
thats an oxymoron.
not that I am racist and dont think Chinese can make anything of value.
I love my chinese china and my chinese cleaver (still sharp after 10 years!)
but guitars are just not part of their culture the way they are to us western folks.
Now if they are $100 or so I suppose they would make a good backup axe.
About the pine part.
Lately I have been making some random experimental instruments out of pine I had left over from some shelves I made. It actually doesnt suck too much, except its rather soft wood. Not terribly dense, but it'll hold string tension.

You forgot about China boy cymbals, I have a great china boy cymbal splash I bought at GC for 5 bucks, I love it. And it is authentically made in China, though I don't like the idea we are putting all the American China Boy makers out of a job.

calaverasgrandes · Post by **calaverasgrandes** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:26 pm

I do believe that the Wuhan "china boy" is the original.
I hate those things though. They just spew white noise and dont ever record well. I've only seen one or two drummers ever utilise them well.
Though to be fair I hate "ice bells" even more.
Oh boy you have a device that makes a 130db spike at 3k! Give me more!
Heck lets compress that and pan it hard left!

Jeff White · Post by **Jeff White** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:50 pm

I own four Fender instruments. All of them are really nice. Most of them were made in different places.

? 1996 American Standard P-Bass
? 1999 MIM "Frankensteined" Stratocaster (Wilkinson bridge, Sperzel tuners, etc etc.. 1999 neck w/ 1998 body that I just switched)
? 2003 Highway 1 Telecaster
? 2003 CIJ Jaguar

I think that it's easy to generalize about the quality of whatever. Here's my advice when it comes to the playability of a guitar:

? Play a bunch of whatever model you want.
? Purchase the best of the bunch, even if it is more $$$.
? Become friends with a reliable, passionate, and gifted guitar repair person.
? Have this guitar tech work on your guitar immediately when you purchase it (setup, etc etc)
? Learn how to do repairs on the electronics of your guitars yourself, as it is fairly easy.
? Take every guitar that you own and have it professionally setup every year to 18 months. Keep them all in cases when you are not playing them. Humidify your acoustic instruments.

That's it.

My tech (Pete Brown at South Jersey Guitar Repair) has been working on my guitars since 2000, when he was a teenage apprentice. He is awesome and LOVES Fenders and Squiers. He can take any Squier or Fender in any price range and turn it into the best playing stunt electric guitar that you have ever had in your hands. Seriously. The dude is gifted and knows his shit.

I won't be surprised when I drop off my next guitar to him if he has totally reworked one of these Classic Vibe Squiers into a total work of art.

Also, remember... Fenders are modular guitars. You can totally customize them to be amazing. I just redid my Strat last night after it sat in pieces for the past 14 months. Put it all back together in three hours, with a new 1998 Mexican body that I purchased last year on eBay, and its intonation is perfect because of this bridge: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_ta ... emolo.html. Next step is upgrading the pickups to three single coils again (I'm a single coil whore these days) and replacing the 10 year old original Mexican pots and wiring.

Anyway, the point that I am trying to make is that saying Fender or Gibson or XXXX hasn't made a single decent guitar after 19XX isn't true in the least. It all depends on making the instrument right for you, and that leaves a lot of room for exploration and stuff. I love my eight instruments, but I can tell you that they've all been through a lot of changes since the day that I purchased them, with the exception of my acoustics, which are stock and really great as is, though have been professionally setup several times.

If they cost $200 or $2000 I'd still have them at the tech immediately to have them improved.

Jeff

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