Flipping Gear

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

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calaverasgrandes
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Post by calaverasgrandes » Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:48 pm

I got my own personal debt back down under the ominous 10k hump for the first time in years. While I like to think its from gear, quite a lot is actually left over from tours and mini tours. Truckstop food, gas, booze, fireworks etc.

if you guys think flipping music gear is bad (or not) I make money flipping computer gear all the time. I pick up free computer gear off of craigslist or from job sites that are tossing old stuff, then I refurb it and turn it around for cheap. I dont make a lot of dough. It's more just my way of making sure that this junk doesnt end up in a landfill leaking toxics into the environment.
Though I did pick up a "broken" P4 last year and turn it around for $400 in a few weeks. It had 60 processes running with no programs open, and the case was full of cat hair. Added some ram, turned off the crap and un-installed yahoo-freaking toolbar.
??????? wrote: "everything sounds best right before it blows up."

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Post by otto-bot » Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:16 pm

Oh I got debt in the 6 figures but I'm talking mortgage, 2 cars, student loan and all that shit. I could not imagine having over $100,000 in debt for gear and not being some sort of pro but to each his own I guess. I need a bumper sticker that says something to the effect "my studio might suck but it's paid for". :lol:
Last edited by otto-bot on Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by skythemusic » Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:11 pm

calaverasgrandes wrote:I got my own personal debt back down under the ominous 10k hump for the first time in years. While I like to think its from gear, quite a lot is actually left over from tours and mini tours. Truckstop food, gas, booze, fireworks etc.

if you guys think flipping music gear is bad (or not) I make money flipping computer gear all the time. I pick up free computer gear off of craigslist or from job sites that are tossing old stuff, then I refurb it and turn it around for cheap. I dont make a lot of dough. It's more just my way of making sure that this junk doesnt end up in a landfill leaking toxics into the environment.
Though I did pick up a "broken" P4 last year and turn it around for $400 in a few weeks. It had 60 processes running with no programs open, and the case was full of cat hair. Added some ram, turned off the crap and un-installed yahoo-freaking toolbar.

nice work with the computer thing. That is actually doing a real service as those crt monitors are not exactly the best thing ever for the environment. I'm not literally in debt at this point but between over 15 years of gigging all over the country for little money (and enduring all the little expenses that come with that), getting naively ripped off by music business sharks, spending lots of money in studios for product that was subpar and even unused, and making gear purchases that lost a lot of money when I was younger I would say my total loss from being a musician is darn near 6 figures. Sometimes you take a gambling chance and it doesn't pay off. I view it as a valuable, albeit expensive, lesson. Now I only buy gear that if I don't dig I will make money or at worse suffer a small loss. I record myself on my own gear that I own and I rarely play shows. It just loses too much money these days to play original music in clubs. I like hanging with the mellow life at home.

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calaverasgrandes
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Post by calaverasgrandes » Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:40 pm

yeeeah, playing in bars lost ALL of its appeal when I quit drinking. I was like, this is what I have been doing for the last 20 years? Has it always been this boring?

There really should be a law against musicians gettign credit cards. I had no business buying a full Mesa bass stack when I was only making $8 and hour. No business buying all those pedals and shit. Cant complain about my mic collection though.
??????? wrote: "everything sounds best right before it blows up."

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Post by trodden » Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:40 pm

fuck, I have 1200 in debt and I that stresses me out... six figures??? I already drink to get to bed... i wouldn't be able to sleep!!!!

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Post by trodden » Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:42 pm

oh, and I'd come home from tours with my electric and water turned off at best...

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Post by JohnDavisNYC » Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:55 pm

my 2k of debt is a burden... i can't imagine even breaking 10k...

no utilities i can relate to...


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Post by otto-bot » Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:02 pm

A bit off topic here but whatever: Not all debt is bad I mean if you can buy a home at least your paying for something you own that should appreciate in time rather than making some landlord money. I make a decent amount more with college than I would have without - easily enough to make the loan palatable. Transportation kinda sucks cause cars depreciate but unless you live in a large metro area with great public transportation than you need something. Racking up credit card debt for a bunch of gear when your a nobody is questionable - so is the mentality that more gear will make up for lack of talent. Now I'll get off my soapbox.

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Post by calaverasgrandes » Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:26 pm

More OT.
I am truly envious of people getting into music/recording these days. Pretty much every kind of gear is cheaper and more accessible than it was when I got started. Except real tape decks. (pun?) those have gotten way too expensive, esp when compared to digital stuff. The tape costs are just not justifiable from a hobbyist standpoint. Not at all like when you could pick up quarter inch at radio shack and martkertek still carried alignment tapes.
But jeez, the sheer plethora of mics, pres, comps, eqs are awesome.
But then I guess that same ubiquity of gear has also made the viability of independent studios somewhat more precarious.
I'm off to the bathroom with the latest sweetwater catalog and some jergens.
??????? wrote: "everything sounds best right before it blows up."

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Post by skythemusic » Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:43 pm

trodden wrote:fuck, I have 1200 in debt and I that stresses me out... six figures??? I already drink to get to bed... i wouldn't be able to sleep!!!!

I mean CUMULATIVE I have probably lost 75-100k playing music over 20 years. I came up in the time too when recordings cost a LOT and you couldn't do them at home (except maybe a 4 track, and even that cost me like $450 in 1990 money - which would probably be $1500 now). I did the "why don't I buy tons of rapidly depreciating new gear on the credit card while I make $8/hr trick" too. It is different now thank god. I mean you can now buy a large diaphragm condenser for like $50 if you look for it. That is amazing. I'm not complaining, and I can relate to playing in bars losing its appeal. I don't drink anymore either. What's the point of dragging all your gear to someplace to lose money and play for people who are way more interested in trying to get laid and rap poetically about their own art project?? No thanks, I'll stay home. I still love recording though. I'm piecing together a great little studio.

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No Issue There

Post by louloomis » Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:41 am

Hi. I buy and sell gear all the time....usually at a profit and sometimes at a great profit. I've been doing this for 25 years - as long as I've been a musician. I never lied to anyone or deceived anyone either so my conscience is clear. If my knowledge about a topic makes me money, then isn't that a good thing? I've spent the time learning about the subject, so why shouldn't I enjoy everything about the subject?

Some people out there are against anything and everything.

I once had a guy on Craigslist go ABSOLUTELY BERSERK ON ME for the requirements I expected of bandmates I was seeking in a "musicians wanted" ad. I replied "If you don't like the requirements, then don't join. Besides, based on your e-mail you own a $5,000 bass....so why don't you go place your own ad?". He apologized.

The point is, as long as no one is being hurt and someone (you) is being helped, I think we'll all be fine in the end.

LL

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Post by AstroDan » Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:56 am

If you buy something for a percentage below street pricing and sell it for a percentage above street pricing, maybe fixing what's broken and certainly disclosing what can't be - then that's commendable. That's ethical business.

If someone comes to you with a priceless instrument that they are unaware the value of, and you keep them uninformed and just ask "what's it worth to you?" and settle on 1/20th of the price it could command - that is wrong. Period.
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Post by ;ivlunsdystf » Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:46 am

AstroDan wrote: If someone comes to you with a priceless instrument that they are unaware the value of, and you keep them uninformed and just ask "what's it worth to you?" and settle on 1/20th of the price it could command - that is wrong. Period.
Would 1/5th of the price be "right"? 1/2? 3/4? What fraction of the fair market value would be appropriate to offer?

EDIT Corollary related thought questions: If Guitar Center were selling a perfect vintage Tube Screamer (possibly worth $500 on ebay, let's say) for $50, would it be "wrong" to calmly snap it up for the $50? (You would, according to your own principles, be swindling the financiers who own Guitar Center)

What if the local Goodwill store had the same deal? Would that also be wrong? (I once got a working Hammond B2 at Goodwill for $30 or so, and later resold it for a few hundred - I am fairly certain that the people at Goodwill assumed it was broken because they did not know how to switch it on using the starter mechanism - is that also "wrong"?)

Just thinking this through, and trying to be a pain in the ass/devil's advocate.

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Post by linus » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:05 am

The original post by IanD wasn't just reporting that he flipped gear but looking for validation: "Is there shame in this?".

It's not illegal and morals are entirely subjective. So shame? Thats for you to decide.

It's speculation. Buying/holding something for profit. It's part of the capitalists sysstem our country is based on.

There's an entire discussion about speculation and oil prices going on these days.

It's the same as ticket scalpers buying concert tickets for a show that will be in demand. They are buying them below their 'true' value and then reselling them for what they are really worth.

I have to admit I have a pretty low opinion of ticket scalpers. But people who buy and sell commodities futures (oil, gold, wheat, corn) I feel ambivalent.

That's why this thread came up. We think some speculators are OK and some are not. But it's all subjective.
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Post by lyman » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:26 am

Tatertot wrote:
AstroDan wrote: If someone comes to you with a priceless instrument that they are unaware the value of, and you keep them uninformed and just ask "what's it worth to you?" and settle on 1/20th of the price it could command - that is wrong. Period.


EDIT Corollary related thought questions: If Guitar Center were selling a perfect vintage Tube Screamer (possibly worth $500 on ebay, let's say) for $50, would it be "wrong" to calmly snap it up for the $50? (You would, according to your own principles, be swindling the financiers who own Guitar Center)
i'll try my hand at this.

sure, you as the buyer are taking advantage of the situation in both cases. in the 2nd example, the price was set by the dept. manager or whoever at that store branch handles that thing. that's who screwed up and that's who is responsible for the loss on the pedal. so the issue is between the financier owners of GC and the store employees. you shouldn't feel guilty for poor internal processes of a company. in the first example the deceit is directly between you and the ignorant seller and i would not be comfortable doing business like that. thus, i don't have as big a problem with the GC example.

it's a gray area.

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