Flipping Gear

Mystic Steamship Co. · Post by **Mystic Steamship Co.** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:26 am

So this summer I've been making money buying and selling gear, and its BY FAR the best job I've ever had. I don't make that much money but I make as much as I did working at Starbucks and the music hall at my school full time. This summer has been awesome because I've had TONS of free time to play music and all I have to do is check out craigslist a few times a day and make a trip to nashville when I find something good. Anyway... A guy I met on craigslist gave me a take up reel for my 2 track machine for free the other day and we got to talking. He was a really cool dude and I told him how I've been making money this summer buying and selling gear and he seemed down with it. I told him about some stuff I had for sale and he said he wanted this snake I had. I told him I'd sell it to him for what I bought it for which was $50 because I appreciated him going out of his way to give me a reel for free. Anyway he was supposed to come pick it up yesterday and I ended up waiting on him for about 3 hours before I realized he wasn't coming...I had been calling him but he didn't pick up although he assured me he'd show up sometime that evening so I kept waiting. Later that evening I went to check my email and he sent me this message saying that I was a "profiteer" and "knowingly took advantage of others" so he didn't want to do business with me. Now I understand why somebody wouldn't want to do business with someone that "knowingly took advantage of others" but I don't understand how buying stuff below its value and selling it for what it's really worth is taking advantage of anyone. The seller sets his own price and when they are low its because A) they need cash fast or B) it needs a lot of work, either way I'm not hurting anyone, and buyers on ebay pay what they feel is a fair price for the item. I've never misled anyone on either side of the fence before. I've never bought something from someone who had no idea what they had, 90% of people just need cash fast or are just trying to get rid of stuff that's taking up space or is broken. Is there really shame in this? because it seems like common sense to me...if i see something for $500 that I can sell for $1000 why not do it, especially if all I have to do is have a cool instrument at my house for a week? It takes me 2 weeks to earn that much working 40 hours a week at I job I fucking hate. I am not trying to be some kind of gear pimp, I'd just rather spend my time and effort making money for myself instead of someone else at $7.00 and hour. [/i]

Judas Jetski · Post by **Judas Jetski** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:34 am

Think of it this way--if everyone did what you're doing, would you like the way the world was turning? Or would you hate it because you wouldn't be able to afford the stuff you liked? Gear-speculation is a two-edged sword.

rhythm ranch · Post by **rhythm ranch** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:26 am

Within the context of a capitalistic society there's nothing wrong with what you're doing. How is it any different than what any used gear dealer is doing. You're a junior Music-Go-Round. Go make money.

toothpastefordinner · Post by **toothpastefordinner** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:31 am

I did this for years in college, but unlike music-go-round I'd actually clean and fix the shit before re-selling it...

ubertar · Post by **ubertar** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:48 am

There's nothing wrong with what you're doing. To argue otherwise is just hyper-idealistic hippy nonsense. Now get off my lawn.

chris harris · Post by **chris harris** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:32 am

true, there's obviously nothing wrong with what you're doing. but, that doesn't mean that you should expect to be welcomed with open arms by other people looking for good deals on gear. get that guy a good deal on a piece of gear that he's after and you might just switch from the guy who's trying to make a buck to the guy who helped him get a good deal. your customers know that you're in business to make a profit. But, I would certainly try to de-emphasize that aspect of it when dealing with them.

there's nothing wrong with what you're doing. but, there's also nothing wrong with someone choosing not to do business with you.

chris harris · Post by **chris harris** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:36 am

ubertar wrote:There's nothing wrong with what you're doing. To argue otherwise is just hyper-idealistic hippy nonsense. Now get off my lawn.

that's a good distinction.

if you're JUST flipping gear, then you're not really providing any kind of service to customers... unless you've got a nice inventory on hand or something. maybe finding good gear and making it more readily available is somewhat of a service. But, most people out there on the market for used gear will probably just see you as someone standing in between them and good deals if all you're doing is turning over the gear.

like I said, there's nothing illegal or immoral or wrong with what you're doing. But, it's certainly not any way to make friends on the used gear market unless you're providing a service that people value.

ubertar · Post by **ubertar** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:47 am

subatomic pieces wrote:
ubertar wrote:There's nothing wrong with what you're doing. To argue otherwise is just hyper-idealistic hippy nonsense. Now get off my lawn.
that's a good distinction.

if you're JUST flipping gear, then you're not really providing any kind of service to customers... unless you've got a nice inventory on hand or something. maybe finding good gear and making it more readily available is somewhat of a service. But, most people out there on the market for used gear will probably just see you as someone standing in between them and good deals if all you're doing is turning over the gear.

like I said, there's nothing illegal or immoral or wrong with what you're doing. But, it's certainly not any way to make friends on the used gear market unless you're providing a service that people value.

It sounds like he's selling the stuff on ebay, in which case that's not really an issue. If other people want to get stuff cheap too, they can scour craigslist, flea markets, etc. themselves. Now and then you can even get a good deal on ebay.

Judas Jetski · Post by **Judas Jetski** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:03 am

Maybe I should clarify my earlier remarks a little bit. I tend to write these long posts, then think they're too wordy, and edit them into something which isn't wordy enough.

I've sold a bunch of stuff at the musician's flea market in Buffalo over the years, and bought a bunch of stuff as well. In fact, if I hadn't done things this way I probably wouldn't have the studio I've got now. Dealing face to face is a lot better than eBay, even if it is a little less profitable. You get to know people that way, establish a real reputation (not a feedback rating) and eventually one deal leads to another, and another and after a while you're doing better than you would have if you were totally cut-throat about stuff. I've got people I won't deal with at all, just because they've been complete @ssholes to me in past dealings. I've also "lost" money on a deal with someone I trust, just because I know that one way or another it'll come back to me.

One thing to keep in mind is that there are lots of people out there who will resent the fact that you are doing all the work of tracking down gear to sell. It sounds crazy, but it's absolutely true. I spent years looking for a particular car I wanted to buy, at a price point I could afford... years of daily searching. All my gearhead friends commented on how "lucky" I was to have "stumbled on such a deal." Gimme a break. I worked my @ss off to get that car, worked my @ss off to keep it, and now that I'm considering selling it all these same friends can think of is the purchase price (which I very foolishly let slip). Jerks.

Remember, your time is worth something. Your effort in getting the thing is worth something. Some people will try to make you feel bad about what you're doing so they can try to get you to lower your prices to their benefit. You were returning a favor by offering this guy the snake at cost. If, under the circumstances, he didn't want to buy the snake, he just shouldn't have bought it. If he wanted to trade the snake for the reel, he should have just offered to trade. It was poor taste for him to press the issue as he did.

Things get a little more tangled when eBay is involved because you don't get to set the selling price, so you have no control over the conditions of your sale (unless you set a Buy It Now price, but even that has its perils).

Only you know whether you're taking advantage of people or not. If you want to keep doing what you're doing and not feel bad about it, just make sure you're giving everyone the best deal you can while making enough money to make it worthwhile to you. Then, when someone comes along and calls you a "profiteer" or whatever you can tell them to go suck an egg and still maintain a clear conscience.

Just remember to treat others the way you want to be treated (a little better, actually) and you'll be a lot more immune to this kind of thing.

I personally won't sell something I got for nothing, unless I have put some time & energy into it somehow. Call me a hippy if you want to (that'd be a first for d@mn sure) but that way I know it's actually mine and I have a right to sell it.

Mystic Steamship Co. · Post by **Mystic Steamship Co.** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:03 pm

I usually end up putting a good amount of work into the things I sell, and i'd say I end up keeping about half of what I buy (with the intention of selling it), because I find something I really like or after I put a bunch of work into something I grow attached to it. My good friend and bandmate has TONS of gear and he got almost all of it this way. I've probably doubled the amount of gear I have in just a couple of months, because I don't feel bad about keeping things I got for a steal because I can always sell it down the road if need be and at the very least get all my money back if not more. I know the guy who wrote the the e-lecture was just pissed because I scored a Rhodes he was wanting for $200 and he thinks I'm gonna sell it (which I'm not going to). I was just curious to see Tape-op's opinion's of flipping gear because I assume this is how LOTS of home and semi pro studios acquire their stuff.

Judas Jetski · Post by **Judas Jetski** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:12 pm

What you describe there I wouldn't even call "flipping." That's buying something, increasing its value, and selling it so you get paid for your work.

Don't let other people's sour grapes get you down. The only time that would be a bad thing is if the widow next door is selling that Otari you've always coveted and you convince her it's only worth $25... and then turning around and selling it for six million.

asmara · Post by **asmara** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:18 pm

Just don't let it distract you from making music.

calaverasgrandes · Post by **calaverasgrandes** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:27 pm

While I resent some gear hounds out there for speculatively driving up the price on some of my favorite gear (traynor YBA series f'rinstance)
There is really nothing wrong with a private individual doing some reselling. I've done it from time to time. It beats what the pawnshops and used gear stores will do. Pay the sellers half what its worth and turn around and sell it for twice what its worth.
But to be honest the days when you could make a buck just from your knowledge of gear value are drawing to a close. Almost everyone has the internet and is aware of ebay and craiglist. Just check out how many of the sellers on ebay are pawnshops! So its harder and harder to find that garage sale with the little old lady selling the fender bassman and fender pbass that her son left when he went off to 'nam. Which is how I got my first bass and amp, nyah nyah! Blew up the amp BTW.
but the reality is that everyone IS doing what you are doing. The value of pretty much all gear is rising. I laugh when I look on ebay and see something overpriced by an order of magnitude (saw a 10 foot cat5 cable for $50 today!) not so funny when it sells for the high price. Sets a precedence for all the other sellers to START at the current going rate and bid up from there.

otto-bot · Post by **otto-bot** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:20 pm

I'm not a serious gear flipper but I have a tendancy to jump on good deals when I see them even if I know I will might re-sell for money. Most of what I do buy, I buy with the intent of trying it out to see if it is something I want. I also have a rule that I should be able to sell anything I buy for at least the same price or more (common sense you might say). I'm surprised to hear that someone can make a living this way. A recent deal on a few items paid for a monomachine so it has deffinately helped me feed and grow my hobby but it does take time and work to get the deals and this is a free market. Information is readily available and it is up to the seller and buyer to do their research.

TRIFECTA · Post by **TRIFECTA** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:37 pm

I flip gear sometimes. It is not wrong and thats that. People tend to not like you for it because they are jealous of it. I have been flamed for it so much on CL it is absurd. Where is the difference in it from a used car lot, a thrift store (they get there goods for free), a used music store, a pawn shop, real estate, anything really. Is it really that different than the idea of making something for pennies and selling it for tripple the amount as most goods sold in stores are? Not in my opinion. It is capitalism all the same.
It is what makes the economy what it is.

I flip stuff crom CL and ebay but I also deal with a music store locally that I have some investment in and there is a fine line. When someone comes into the shop and asks, "what is this worth" we tell them, show them the books and be upright honest about it, but we also tell them we need to make money from it, and they obviously understand that. We make them an offer and they can accept it or not and most of the time they accept. Another local store around my parts, who does used gear, had a local guy walk in with an old gibson that I would have roughly valued at a minimum of 8000 bucks. Well the shop owner (fucking snake) was asked by this guy how much his guitar was worth, and the shop owner told him I will give you 200 bucks for that old thing. The guy sold it to him for 200 bucks. He totally took advantage of him, being 80 years old and probably not ever using ebay, or value books. That is fucked up.

As far as going out and finding deals and even haggling them down, is in no way wrong at all. Make money. It is better than a fucking bullshit job. I dont think someone is going to go to a retail store if something is on sale and say, nope I am not paying 20 bucks for this, I will give you 100 bucks cause that is what its worth. Fuck it.....

I would love to give that guy some words

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