Portable flash recorder with good built-in mics

btswire · Post by **btswire** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:24 pm

My old Sony D7 Dat recorder is on its way out, and I'm thinking of replacing it with a new 24 bit flash recorder. The Olympus LS-10 looks cool, but I just found out that the onboard mics only go down to 70 hz. Looking at the specs on similar units, the frequency response of the built-in mics is usually not listed. I have an AT 822 stereo condenser which has worked well, but I really like the idea of having a small unit that I can take out of my jacket pocket and make field recordings with.

I'm hesitant to go with a Sony unit, as every single Sony product that I have had in the past has failed within a fairly short period of time. The Edirol looks promising, although it seems weird to me that the onboard mics are omni, as I would think that good stereo separation would be a priority for most uers. The Tape Op review of the Zoom awhile back noted a faint high pitched whine. Low self noise is important, as I'd like to be able to record very quiet sounds with good results. Suggestions anyone?

A.David.MacKinnon · Post by **A.David.MacKinnon** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:31 pm

Zoom makes a good one with an X/Y stereo mic set-up. I don't know the model # but I've run across it a few times. Once was with a sound effects guy who used it for recording ambient noises etc for films, the other was with a bass player who used it to record rehearsals and gigs.

ned · Post by **ned** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:47 pm

haven't used them, but i'm considering a Zoom H2 (4 mics, line-in, super tiny, $200) or a Zoom H4 (2 mics, 2 XLR input $300).

;ivlunsdystf · Post by **;ivlunsdystf** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:51 am

I like the Zoom H2, because it is (1) small and (2) cheap. Also it runs forever on rechargeable AA batteries, not some weird proprietary USB charging battery. Cons: the filesystem is weird (it formats the SD into special 'folders' and won't read anything but those folders) and the line in jack is weird. I think plugging something into the line in jack (like a Sony ECM mic for example) doesn't quite turn off the built-in mics like it's supposed to. I don't care because I never use external mics. The built-in ones are fine.

bluesman · Post by **bluesman** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:58 am

I have the Sony PCM-D50 & I love it! The built in mics sound great, line in recordings are easily done because of the loads of headroom this unit has. More expensive than the zoom & worth it. 4 gigs of memory built in, USB 2.0 computer interface. Battery life is amazingly good as well. Try it, you won't want anything else.
I recently used it to record a live concert. I was 20' directly in front of center stage & the recording sounds wonderful....far surpassing my hopes. I burned it to cd with no processing.

dsw · Post by **dsw** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:24 pm

I've done head to head testing with the following:
Zoom H2
M Audio Microtracker
Edirol R-09HR (the new one)
Olympus LS-10
Fostex FR2-LE

Best price and best accessory package: Zoom H2.
Also best for recording yourself since you can have the mics and the controls face you (unlike all the other hand held ones) C+ to B-

Best if you have a digital out put like coming out of a digital mixer: M Audio.
If also has TRS which trumps 1/8th inch mini, but the mic they give you sucks. Also battery is internal only. C+

Best sounding handheld with built in mics BY FAR!! : Edirol R-09HR Open and airy sounding. Damn good for such a small thing. Cheesy build, although they solved some problems the orginal had. B+

Best build BY FAR!! Olympus LS-10. Aluminum body very well done. Nice big screen. Well laid out controls, easy to use. Good for speech, not so much for music. Big plus: no need to put a card in, 2 gb flash built in. A+ build, C- sound.

Best for indie film guys or serious sound recording: Fostex FR-2LE
Great pre amps and convertors. Stunning sound with your good mics. The only one under $600 with XLR inputs. Plastic body is a drag, but whatever. Not small.
So what, it sounds good and you can run your Neumann with it. Tamiya battery (not included) would get you 8 hours. Compact Flash not SD. A-

digitaldrummer · Post by **digitaldrummer** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:15 pm

I have the Zoom H2 also and its wonderful for the money. I've recorded some jazz gigs (just to listen back to) and was really suprised how well the recording came out. A 4GB card can record a whole night of gigging, or its great for carrying around and recording whatever. it can function as recording interface but I've only used the built-in mics. Can't beat it for $200.

Mike

btswire · Post by **btswire** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:21 pm

Based on these responses I'd go with the Edirol if the mics were cardioid, or with the Sony if I didn't have terrible experience with Sony products. Oh well. The Tascam DR-1 looks like it could be promising, and is really cheap. It can't have sample rates above 48K though. Looks like I might have to wait awhile longer till something new gets introduced to the market.

newfuturevintage · Post by **newfuturevintage** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:27 pm

Have the Zoom H4, and haven't noticed the whine. My understanding is it's to do with the unit running off battery power, and that when on the 9vdc power supply it's not an issue. In my case (band rehearsal) it's never been an issue. I've also spent time trying to induce it (battery power, back light on, gain up full, phones maxed), and have not been able to.

the good:
-internal mics are good, stereo separation is very good. can crap out on loud signals, though. If I had to guess, I'd say at ~115dB?
-long battery life. ~4hrs on NiMH batteries with internal mics.
-XLR inputs with 48 or 24 volt phantom (user selectable, 24v is supposed to give longer battery life).
-TS line inputs (combo jacks) very clean. Seem to be -10 inputs that can also take a guitar / bass as a DI. Sounds good with line level signals, not so good as a DI.
-4-track functionality/ guitar tuner/ metronome / mic modelling/ effects. All are pretty cheesy, but this would be a nice little songwriting tool.
-good tech support via phone. Live person within a minute or two, that actually knew the answers to the questions I had.

the bad:
-build quality feels a bit flimsy.
-location of the SD card (underneath the mics, inside the battery compartment) makes removal of the SD card difficult. I've solved the problem with a little scotch tape tab on the card.
-usb port is "Full Speed" not USB2.0, so transfers are very slow unless you remove the card and use a 2.0 reader.
-menu structure takes a bit of getting used to. Not terrible, but not great. Mostly the issue is the joystick, which should be the data entry device isn't. It's a small up/down/push entry on the side of the unit.
-fast forward and rewind are unusable. Maybe realtime, maybe slower. You can, however, key in time values directly to jump around.
-first unit I received had a ~4 or 5dB difference between internal mics. Warranty replacement unit did not have this issue.

Marlowe · Post by **Marlowe** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:29 am

+1

bluesman wrote:I have the Sony PCM-D50 & I love it! The built in mics sound great, line in recordings are easily done because of the loads of headroom this unit has. More expensive than the zoom & worth it. 4 gigs of memory built in, USB 2.0 computer interface. Battery life is amazingly good as well. Try it, you won't want anything else.

cozy · Post by **cozy** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:58 am

i just purchased a m audio microtack 2. its very good for what i need it for. multiple ins and outs and records to compact flash. also it comes with a mic thats not integraded into the device itself, so there is less handling noise.

if anyone were to buy this, check www.abesofmaine.com for the lowest price ($250). take the website to guitar center and they will price match, and you will save yourself $50.

shedshrine · Post by **shedshrine** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:17 pm

Check out these sound samples using the internal mics on the various models.

The Zoom H4n cello sample definitely sounds fuller than the H2.
..then check out the Marantz cello sample.

http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/portable- ... mples.html

calaverasgrandes · Post by **calaverasgrandes** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:48 am

dsw wrote: Best for indie film guys or serious sound recording: Fostex FR-2LE
Great pre amps and convertors. Stunning sound with your good mics. The only one under $600 with XLR inputs. Plastic body is a drag, but whatever. Not small.
So what, it sounds good and you can run your Neumann with it. Tamiya battery (not included) would get you 8 hours. Compact Flash not SD. A-

To clarify, the Zoom H4n has XLRs (combo XLRs actually). It also has phantom power and high pass, but those are accessed in a menu. The inst level inputs sound pretty darn good too.
I picked up one earlier this year.
It sounds a lot better than it should for $300. It also functions as an audio interface for your computer with a centrance driver.
Has a camcorder mic input (1/8th inch stereo jack)
can record 4 tracks at at time. Yeah, 4 mics even.
has a 4 track feature with onboard effects of some sort. Very hard to figure out though.
Lameness:
as an audio interface it only does 44/48k. No 88 or 96.
It does standalone recording at 44/48 and 96, but no 88?
It's kinda clunky and big.
The mic stand adapter is retarded.
no mac driver.

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Portable flash recorder with good built-in mics

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