Taking the digital edge off

[liftyrfists]

Hello,
So, I was wondering; is there a way to record things digitally and then through some post-initial-recording scheme convert the .wav over to some tape (cassette/maybe even real tape; though I understand it's rather expensive which is why I'm asking about this whole scheme in the first place)?

I recently recorded a record in my room and when I sent it off for mastering (my friend at the label I'm working with knew a really good guy in Poland, cheap too) I was told that the guy recorded it to 2" tape and then mastered from that. In the end it did sound a lot warmer and had more body. So, seeing that that was a good result, I was just going to see if there was something to make a digital recording less...well..."digital" sounding. Get the hard edges off...you know?

And if this is an absolutely silly question, please let me know!

cheers,
jon

[rwc]

I recently recorded a record in my room

There you go.

There is a difference between recording in a legitimate studio with a professional vs your bedroom. The person in the studio knows how to get it sounding good, with no unintended hard edges regardless of the capture format.

Spend time messing with recording techniques instead of changing mediums.

[liftyrfists]

I recently recorded a record in my room

There you go.

There is a difference between recording in a legitimate studio with a professional vs your bedroom. The person in the studio knows how to get it sounding good, with no unintended hard edges regardless of the capture format.

Spend time messing with recording techniques instead of changing mediums.

Well, I'm currently working on that too. To be honest I sometimes really like the sound of a room compared to a studio...maybe I just like the imperfections because I can't get rid of them, but I feel like some of my favorite records reflect a strange recording space (the great lakes swimmers first album (in a silo) or set fire to flames first one (in a dilapidated squatter's house)). But, in any case I am researching micing techniques currently, rather intensively really, but was still just curious...

Any super basic techniques or things that come off the top of your head?

[rwc]

Any super basic techniques or things that come off the top of your head?

for doing what?

I just like the imperfections because I can't get rid of them, but I feel like some of my favorite records reflect a strange recording space (the great lakes swimmers first album (in a silo) or set fire to flames first one (in a dilapidated squatter's house)).

then why try to get rid of them?

I am confused

[palinilap]

Lately I've been getting into reamping a lot to remedy digital harshness. When something's just not sitting right I'll reamp it and see where that gets me, just doing the old DI in reverse thing and either send the signal to an amp, which I'll probably mic with a ribbon, or send it through the pres of an old Teac 4-track. Not hitting tape mind you, just passing through those crazy, saturated pres, or do the same thing with a Sansamp bass driver. It's a lot more fun than fudging with saturation plugs.

Edit: Obviously, this isn't in the mastering phase, just during track. But, I will say that my last band's record came out sounding a lot "warmer" after being mastered by Carl Saff. I actually though it might have hit tape, although it didn't. Just really great outboard gear. He'll even give you a free sample of one of your songs mastered.

[Recycled_Brains]

Record at lower levels.

Read here, here, and here.

[liftyrfists]

Record at lower levels.

Read here, here, and here.

Well, I keep it pretty low already...I think the highest I'll let it get is like -6db. Maybe not that uniform, but I'm constantly aware of it.

I was just asking about coldness of digital and trying to warm it up. Maybe I gave the wrong impression when I said "edge" (though I'm wary of that edge as well!). I'm just talking about the inherent edge that digital has, not those that come up from the mis-use of it.

But thanks for the threads! Nice to know some actual numbers to shoot for...

[mjau]

The most simple thing you can do - and one I'm sure you're already on to - is track with "warm" in mind.

[imdrecordings]

What does warm mean again?
Now-a-dayz, warming things up means adding edge, alla distortion. Which accentuates the "edge" of things, IMO.
I'm used to WARM meaning a rounder/louder lower mid.
But I guess you could increase lower-harmonic distortion, which would shelter or soften the upper-mid and top-end a bit.

If you REALLY want to take the "edge off", start at the source and watch how many plugins you use.
Use a different mic or reamp your VSTi's.
Low pass filter your ITB Reverbs and really distorted guitars or Desse your Reverb/Reverb Send.

Mixing into a compressor with a slow attack and a low ratio, can kind of give you what you're going for, too,

At the same time, I'm also one of those guys that believes you can't pull a rabbit out of a hat. Meaning, unless it was there in the first place, it can't be done.

[dynomike]

A lot of people (including myself) mix digitally, processing the stereo mix with outboard stuff (I use ampex line amps sometimes, g-ssl comp usually, ny2a when i get it back, this spectrasonics passive inductor eq / limiter) or even send the mix through different mic pres to see how that 'warms it up'.

Generally compressing, adding a bit of distortion, and losing/smearing the high high end is what people are talking about when they are adding 'warmth'. See if you can find a way to do this using your tools. If not, you can buy a tape machine yourself (1/4" 2 tracks are not that expensive usually) and mix down to that, if thats already given you the sound you're after.

[dynomike]

Btw, a lot of people who design or use high-end converters would argue with you over digital having an "inherent edge". You could send a mix through Lavry Blue's all day and it wouldn't sound as bad as some of the converters out there on their first pass...

[leftofthedial]

The real source of what is perceived as digital harshness:

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=54331

Not all of it, but most of it.

[Tears of Rage]

you can buy a tape machine yourself (1/4" 2 tracks are not that expensive usually) and mix down to that

+1

[liftyrfists]

you can buy a tape machine yourself (1/4" 2 tracks are not that expensive usually) and mix down to that

+1

Any recommendations?

[Professor]

I have recorded almost exclusively to digital for the past ten years. And for the most recent 5.5 years I have recorded mic to preamp (in console or outboard) to digital, then mixed across a digital console with entirely digital effects and processing to a digital delivery format (CD) so that the signal didn't exist in analog from the converter after the preamp to the converter before the power amp & speakers.
In that time, I've never actually heard digital "coldness" or "harshness" or "edge" as a function of the medium.
I have heard digital be "clear", "accurate", and "revealing"... which happen to be characteristics I value.
But that's just me and my experience, and we all hear things differently and want different results.

If the marketing guys and the story of the Polish mastering engineer have convinced you that digital is your problem and analog is your cure, then just do it.
If you want to try cassette because "it's analog" then try it. Sure, cassette is to analog as mp3 is to digital, but if you're not sure what that means, then it's not really a concern.
If you want to buy an open-reel tape deck, they aren't that expensive at all. Go on eBay and search for "Revox" or "Tascam" or "Otari" or "Studer" or "open reel" or "reel to reel" or "tape machine" or "2 track" and you'll start to see all sorts of stuff. Pick one in your price range, buy it, and start using it to warm up your tracks. You can record to the tape machine directly. You can record to tape, then transfer that to the computer to assemble the rest of the song. You can send the finished mix out to the tape machine. You could even get two machines and record from one to the other and back again to add layer upon layer of warm analog goodness.
If it's the solution you need then just do it.

-Jeremy