Recording a 9 piece drumkit = Nightmare. Few Questions. . .

DrummerMan · Post by **DrummerMan** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:45 pm

thunderboy wrote: THE PIC OF NEIL PEART WHICH I'M REFRAINING FROM REPOSTING

yeah, I know...

what the hell was I thinking when I was 14

It just makes me cry aliitle deep down inside now.

oh yeah, and i response to a previous post on this topic:

T-rex · Post by **T-rex** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:15 pm

@?,*???&? wrote:In Brian Eno's 'Oblique Strategies' there exists a card which reads:

"You are an engineer"

Any questions? Is this not the Army you signed up for? If you are not comfortable doing this work, turn the client away and refer them to someone who is adequately equipped with both skills and gear to do the work.

Wow Jeff, I read this and I did some real soul searching. I decided to only record two toms at a time but charge them $25 per tom overdub.

Wait wait, that's not what I did, I was just joshing you. I actually told them I would not only record them but review them for an additional fee. Yes they would have to pay for a review, but it would be sure to increase their visibility and bookings because my opinion is so highly regarded.

No, I am just joking. In reality I found a Berhinger AD/DA converter in the trash, recapped it and used it for the additional inputs because my RME converters didn't have enough channels. The recapping magically made the toms all in phase AND sound like Green Day drum samples.

I apologize to you guys, I'm lying. Instead of all that, I just started throwing out random Oblique Strategy quotes. I did this so they would think I was so smart, that they were beneath working with me and would slither away in shame. Go me!!

Wait, wait wait I am sorry. In all seriousness, I did none of that because I was just visited by my future self. He said, "I just wanted to let you know that you did a steller job on that demo."
I said, "Really? Thanks! What did I do?"
"What it took, because you're an engineer."
I thought that was really cool so I charged him $35 for the advice. He looked kind of pissed, but seriously I don't need these amateurs coming here from the future, bothering me all the time. Geez. . .

(apologies to anyone who haven't been around the TOMB long enough to get some of these @?,*???&? references.)

T-rex · Post by **T-rex** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:17 pm

Yeah, I have never tried the mic pointed into the corner. I have always wanted to but just haven't gotten around to it.

DrummerMan · Post by **DrummerMan** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:27 pm

T-rex wrote:Yeah, I have never tried the mic pointed into the corner. I have always wanted to but just haven't gotten around to it.

I talked about it in a thread about Summit TLA-50's a couple of weeks ago. That mic setup (with that limiter, of course) was always the source of the magic drum sound in my old studio that kept clients coming back... really... there was even a old-school rocksteady/reggae/dub-type session, where the guy who mixed the record ended up only using that track in the mixes. That was a happy day for me.

T-rex · Post by **T-rex** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:38 pm

Oh yeah, I remember that thread, I should I started it! Yeah that is cool. I have to get around to doing that when I get a chance and try it out.

Of course not on this session, but next time I have a few extra tracks I will definitely throw one up and report back.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:22 pm

good post up there t-rex.

akg414 · Post by **akg414** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:23 am

thunderboy wrote:

9 piece drum kit? Better call the "Whaaaa-Bu-Lance".... Howe about the engineer how has to record this guy.

T-rex · Post by **T-rex** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:58 am

HOLY CRAP?

Seriously, if you are going to have more drums than Neil Peart, you had better BRING IT! Speaking in the parlence of our times. . .

I love jazz so the four piece kit just makes sense to me, even for (especially for) rock. You can get an almost infinite amount of tones from a four piece kit you know? I love seeing someone who has really mastered the instrument play a big kit but personally, having played everything from all ages shows to weddings, I ain't going to lug all that stuff around. No way! Now get me some roadies and that may be a different story!

T-rex · Post by **T-rex** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:01 am

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:good post up there t-rex.

Thanks MSE. I was going to ignore Jeff's comment, but that's no fun.

chris harris · Post by **chris harris** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:34 am

vatoben wrote:Can you line up the phase in your computer or are you recording to a different format?

OK. Now, you've got 7 tom mics, 2 on the kick drum, 2 on the snare, 3 overhead mics, a pair of room mics and a mono far room mic. That's 17 mics on the drum set. Can you detail the exact procedure to take those 17 mics and "line up the phase in the computer"? Didn't think so.

I know that I'm stepping on Professor's toes here... but, this whole sliding things around nonsense is ridiculous. Somehow, they managed to get drum kits to sound good before the invention of the DAW. Learn to do this and you'll be a better engineer.

0-it-hz · Post by **0-it-hz** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:38 am

OK, Homeboy with the cockpit had better be able to play the rite of spring on his cymbals while doing the black page on the kick drums because that kit is just silly.

It's one thing to see Bozio playing melodies on toms/cymbals.... then it's just a big marimba.... but if you're just banging out rhythm than what's the point?

I like it when the drummer has one of each thing!

One bass drum
One floor tom
One snare drum
One ride (big cymbal)
Set of hats (little cymbal)

Now GET FUNKY!

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:11 am

subatomic pieces wrote: this whole sliding things around nonsense is ridiculous.

+211 million.

ok, so our man from 'the fiesty piranhas' up there, my only question is how does he get out from behind that thing? maybe he doesn't. maybe his mom brings him his meals and he sleeps sitting up on the throne.

years ago in an old band of mine, we arrive at the club, the opening band is setting up, the drummer was meticulously assembling his 384 piece kit, and we were just marvelling at it. my bandmate remarked "he has more drums on his kit than your kit and mine put together." and this was no exaggeration. we were all eagerly awaiting their set, as we were expecting a Olympic Display Of Devastating Drum Chops....

...and they start to play and every song was "boom bop boom boom bop" with the very occasional "digga digga digga digga" around the toms. so disappointing.

T-rex · Post by **T-rex** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:11 am

0-it-hz wrote:.... then it's just a big marimba.... quote]

Totally! And I respect Bozzio for what he does, but Max Roach did the same thing on a five piece, and arguably much better!

On the sliding tracks thing, I would never think to do that on this many tracks but I try to never rule anything out. I have done it on tracks that a band recorded at their rehersal space that I mixed. They were so out of phase the cymbals sounded like they were recorded through a fan with all the mics up! well maybe not that bad, but bad. So I slid a few tracks a bit and bam, much better. Engineers have done this for years by sending certain tracks through delays. It's nothing new, it's just really easy to abuse now in order to cover up poor tracking decisions or to make minute moves that generally never make a sonic difference in the bigger picture.

@?,*???&? · Post by **@?,*???&?** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:09 am

T-rex wrote:
@?,*???&? wrote:In Brian Eno's 'Oblique Strategies' there exists a card which reads:

"You are an engineer"

Any questions? Is this not the Army you signed up for? If you are not comfortable doing this work, turn the client away and refer them to someone who is adequately equipped with both skills and gear to do the work.
Wow Jeff, I read this and I did some real soul searching. I decided to only record two toms at a time but charge them $25 per tom overdub.

Wait wait, that's not what I did, I was just joshing you. I actually told them I would not only record them but review them for an additional fee. Yes they would have to pay for a review, but it would be sure to increase their visibility and bookings because my opinion is so highly regarded.

No, I am just joking. In reality I found a Berhinger AD/DA converter in the trash, recapped it and used it for the additional inputs because my RME converters didn't have enough channels. The recapping magically made the toms all in phase AND sound like Green Day drum samples.

I apologize to you guys, I'm lying. Instead of all that, I just started throwing out random Oblique Strategy quotes. I did this so they would think I was so smart, that they were beneath working with me and would slither away in shame. Go me!!

Wait, wait wait I am sorry. In all seriousness, I did none of that because I was just visited by my future self. He said, "I just wanted to let you know that you did a steller job on that demo."
I said, "Really? Thanks! What did I do?"
"What it took, because you're an engineer."
I thought that was really cool so I charged him $35 for the advice. He looked kind of pissed, but seriously I don't need these amateurs coming here from the future, bothering me all the time. Geez. . .

(apologies to anyone who haven't been around the TOMB long enough to get some of these @?,*???&? references.)

lol

Gosh, you got me there!

The whole thing boils down to do you know what you're good at? Do you have the equipment to do this? In the old metal days, you'd mic top AND bottom of each drum.

This is about resources. Pretty cut and dried actually. Do you have enough mics? Do you have enough inputs? If so, dig in. Do the work. It's simple.

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