Alt Country Drum Sound

[GoatKnuckles]

so i'm about to custom build a drumkit for my studio and I was interested in hearing from engineers as well as drummers. The sound I will mainly be going for is very "thick and "dead" (those are the best ways I can describe it). I know a good amount of this sound will more than likely come from proper compression and possibly gating however I would like to hear what some of you would do in terms of a kit. i'm looking for wood type, ply, head brands anything you might think would get me closest to the sound i'm going after pre hitting the signal chain. I realize this might be possibly better for a drum forum but I figured i'd give it a shot here first. For a good example of what i'm after check out the track "Nervous Heart" by Rhett Miller, those drums are near perfect.

[@?,*???&?]

Small space- dead space. Keep any reflections out of the mics. Do not record ANY ambience.

http://georgegraham.com/casalbio.html

Scroll down to the "The Sun Rises Here" section.

Two of my favorite tracks on that disc are "On the mend" and "Dandelion Wine".

[the finger genius]

Haven't heard the track you mentioned, but I've been playing in and recording bands that could be described as alt-country for some time. For thick and dead, I would recommend concert toms. Actually you may want to get normal drums, and just remove the bottom heads (which will always leave you the option of putting them back on....) Experiment with heads, but I've always preferred Remo Coated Emperor. CS (Black Dots) give a really dead sound, but I think its a little too much. Big, heavy cymbals will also work in your favor. I always use a coated emperor on my snare (a Noble & Cooley alloy model - definitely worth the money for a used one if you can find it, they do everything really well.) I find that that drum and head can be tuned to give me anything I'm looking for.

Or take a regular bright, ringing drumkit, and use ribbons / dark dynamics as overheads.

[losthighway]

Did a session a couple weeks ago that had great 'classic' dead sounding drums. Like the other poster said, no bottom on the toms (this can be a little tricky to mix in a flattering way, but with good mics and an in tune drum you should be good) and he had a sock taped to the top of his snare. What was really surprising is how tight the snare was tune, while still having that 70's rich/dark 'thwack'. Had something to do with the sock I guess. Hope he washed it beforehand.

[DrummerMan]

My humble, though completely partisan, advice: get some old drums, like 60's or 70's slingerlands, rogers, ludwigs.

I find that as technology advances in drum making, there's more tuning going into the making of drum shells. In theory, this leaves you with a better sonically balanced drum. Add to that the invention and use of floating heads and "rims" style mounting brackets for toms, and you've got what alot of people consider to be "superior" drums, delivering a purer tone, etc, blah blah blah...

I, personally, have a much harder time trying to get these types of quality new drums to sound the way I like drums to sounds. I place partial blame on, based on nothing but my own speculation, on "improvements" in drum manufacturing technology. I don't want my rack tom to hit a perfect A#. I want it to go "thud", or maybe "dooom" or "pshhhht".... but definitely not "riiiiing".

This is really just my personal preference. I know drummers who sound better on modern sounding kits and don't know how to sound good on my kits, so, to each his/her own, but i'd consider my sensibilty somewhat in-line with the alt-country mentality.

listening a bit to that track you mentioned, i'd say keep the snare pretty dead, like t shirt over it dead, and the snares pretty loose, and try and get a good dry (as previously mentioned) room sound.

+1 on pretty much everything the finger genius said too. I don't use the CS dot heads, but they'll probably treat you relatively well. Otherwise, remo coated emperors. I generally stay away from clear heads, but I've had them work sometimes too, so...


lost highway's suggestion of a Sock is good too. Wallets have their place, but I find they tighten up things in an old-school funk way more than the loose deadness I think you're looking for (which IMHO is more like a Ringo or even Dub approach).


Anyway. Best of luck with your kit assemblage.

[centurymantra]

Some good stuff has been said so far. I was recently working with a drummer and I was really digging the sound of his snare drum...a very nice mahogany drum. He made a point about the particular snare drum head that he was using and how it contributed quite a bit to the sound he was getting. It was an unusual head, a Remo Ambassador Vintage - worth checking out:

http://www.remo.com/portal/products/3/8 ... age_a.html

I think this may be right in line with the sound you're looking for.

[Grahambo!]

We take off all the bottom heads, take off the bass drum resonant head, 70s paiste cymbals, coated emperor heads, a little internal muffling, pillow in the kick, gaffer tape, and a good ol' polo-shirt draped over the snare.

Works wonders.

[I'm Painting Again]

I gotta go and play a kit in person to know if it's really what I want..I think there is a specialty shop in Bethlehem and then Dale's in Harrisburg..or Main Drag Music if you want to drive up to Brooklyn..

don't rule out new kits as they can sound great too..

you want drums with good action as well as good sound..

go with a drummer..

[the finger genius]

i think there's a lot of value to be had (in ny at least) on craigslist. i've had great luck in buying couple of sets in the past few years. getting some old great ludwig kits for between 500 - 800$. if you're not a drummer, bring one along whether buying new or used.

[GoatKnuckles]

thanks to everyone this info is amazing, I'm actually gonna have the kit built by a custom company called SJC that the drummer from my band has an endorsement by, so if anyone could give me any input as to good dimensions, wood types, lug patterns that would be extremely appreciated.

[the finger genius]

i like thinner shells (old ludwigs are awesome), which resonate a little more, maybe a three ply maple shell? this can offset the other things i've recommended to deaden your sound, but in a good way.

also, as far as dimensions, i usually prefer the old style of a shallower drum (8x 12 and 9x13) for rack toms. 16 inch floor tom is pretty standard and i would go with a 24 inch kick.

[@?,*???&?]

Here's a company in Detroit making a perfectly fudgy sounding kit:

http://www.detroitcustomdrumco.com/DC-DC/HOME.html

[DrummerMan]

i like thinner shells (old ludwigs are awesome), which resonate a little more, maybe a three ply maple shell? this can offset the other things i've recommended to deaden your sound, but in a good way.

also, as far as dimensions, i usually prefer the old style of a shallower drum (8x 12 and 9x13) for rack toms. 16 inch floor tom is pretty standard and i would go with a 24 inch kick.

again, +1

though I would generally go for a 20" kick. It's amazing how much variety you can get out of that size: floppy and open when you want it, but tight and punchy when you want it too. I love big 24" BDs, but I don't feel like they give as much in terms of options.

But yes, shallower drums:

snare 5 1/2x14
rack tom 9" or 10" deep x 13" wide.
floor 16"x16"

[cgarges]

though I would generally go for a 20" kick.

Agreed, especially for that kind of music.

Gretsch drums were the Nashville recording and touring standard for YEARS pretty much until Pearl moved US distribution to Tennessee in the 80s. I would be willing to bet that the majority of the classic alt country records were recorded with Gretsch drums. That generally means thinner shells (gumwood for older drums, maple in more moderns ones), sharp bearing edges and no reinforcing rings. I have three different Gretsch kits, some combinations of which would mostly get used on these kinds of sessions, unless someone really wanted the flabby, single headed, attack-heavy sound of early 80s birch drums, in which case I'd pull out my Yamaha Recording Custom kit. For something with more tone and sustain and a more modern and prettier type of sound, I'd use my Noble & Cooley kit. My 60s roundbadge Gretsch 14x20 bass drum is probably capable of the biggest variety of sounds based on head choice, tuning, and muffling combinations.

Snare drums would be all over the place, but I think having something thin (5" deep) and metal (Ludwig Acrolite, 400, etc.) and something thicker and wood (some kind of well-designed 6.5" or 7" maple or birch drum) would give you a lot of options for that style.

For most rock stuff, I'm a two-ply head guy for toms and bass drums and the differences between coated or clear are both noticeable and asthetically-pleasing on their own ways. For snare drums, I like coated Ambassadors or for a thicker sound, Fiberskyn Ambassadors or renaissance Emperors.

As far as cymbals go, I'm a pretty die-hard Paiste guy, although I've got a pretty giant collection of cymbals that does include a few Zildjians, Wuhans, and some oddball choices, too.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[HeavyHand]

if you are going to go with SJC and you want and old-school dead drum type sound try the mahogany shell w/ maple reinforcing rings. and a 45 degree rounded-back bearing edge. coated emporers on top and coated ambasadors on the bottom of the toms. using the coated bottoms gives a great dry tom sound. also just call SJC and tell them what you are looking for. a company like theirs (that isn't giant) will have the time to talk shop with you.

if it were me i wouldnt spend the extra money on off-set lugs, powder coating of anything or crazy fades. just a straight up wood stain with a satin finish and chrome hardware.

enjoy your new kit ya lucky prick ya.