Joel: Recording Jolie Holland

Sean Sullivan · Post by **Sean Sullivan** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:52 pm

Joel, I'm potential recording an artist that reminds me of Jolie Holland, but with a little Feist in here. This isn't being done in my apartment, but in a studio at MTSU with a SSL Duality console and a nicer selection of microphone then I am used to.

I wanted to know how you recording the drums (microphone selection and placement) and vocals, primary. Heck, acoustic and electric guitars as well.

Preamp selections:
SSL
Millenia HV-3D
Millenia Origin
Calrec mic
John Hardy M-1

Microphones:
Neumann M147
Neumann TLM 170 pair
Neumann TLM193 pair
Neumann KM184 pair
Shure SM81 pair
AKG C451 pair
Sennheiser E604s,
Sennheiser MD421s
Schoeps CMC 5s & 6s
Audio Technica AT4033
AKG C414 B/ULS
AKG D12E
AKG D112
Electro-Voice RE 20
Shure SM7B
Lawson L47FET
Beyerdynamic M201
Ribbon microphone of some kind (I plan on buying a Royer R-121/122 or Coles 4038 soon)

Outboard:
EMT 140 plate (I have a feeling this will be used a lot)
Empirical Labs Distressor pair
dbx 165 pair
Lexicon PCM 42
Lexicon 480L
Eventide H3000

I don't have a lot of experience with these microphones and unfortunately there isn't a ton of time for experimenting, so I need help just getting started.

I would probably used a RE20 and L47FET on kick, M201 on snare, MD421 on toms (if needed), C414s as overheads, and a room microphone of some kind.

Vocals I'd probably use the M 147, but I'd try a C414 and L47FET

Electric Guitars I'd probably use a ribbon and L47FET or C414 together

Acoustics I'd try a SM81 and Schoeps, maybe a KM184 and AT4033 as well.

Bass amplifier (if used) I'd probably do with a D12 and/or AT4033

joel hamilton · Post by **joel hamilton** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:56 am

I just got back home from a little adventure...

You should just record them as well as you can, and if you are mixing, make it really great.

I am not kidding. You wouldnt belueve the disparity in the tracks I was mixing for the Jolie record. Some of it was tracked to tape, some not, some in a studio, some at home, some by an engineer, some by the producer, some tracks with a good mics, some tracks with cheap mics.... I mean ALL over the place, really.

The only thing you need to do is be sure that the aesthetic you go for really flatters the content as much as possible. The individual mic selections will matter much , much less than that.

Email me if you have specific questions.
Have fun!

Sean Sullivan · Post by **Sean Sullivan** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:58 am

Unfortunatly the project fell through and I'm recording a 3 piece power pop band for the project, which is more up my alley.

Looking back, this was a silly request. I just need to find a way to become familiar with the room and the sound of the equipment. I'm going to try and see if I can sit in on some other people's sessions because I don't start tracking for another month.

Thanks Joel, hope you adventure was fun.

wrenhunter · Post by **wrenhunter** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:11 am

Joel, any more info you'd care to share about Jolie's new record? I'm a big fan, would love to hear any news.

rwc · Post by **rwc** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:52 am

i think coming up with a vision then following that vision using recording techniques you know OR coming up with recording techniques you haven't used to suit said vision is far more important than coming up with an approach before you have that vision.

joel hamilton · Post by **joel hamilton** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:18 pm

rwc wrote:i think coming up with a vision then following that vision using recording techniques you know OR coming up with recording techniques you haven't used to suit said vision is far more important than coming up with an approach before you have that vision.

Totally, man. Totally.

rwc · Post by **rwc** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:43 pm

thanks joel. that means a lot coming from you!

I'm sure you've been busy with the trip across the country, but did you happen to have a chance to look over my email since you got back?

joel hamilton · Post by **joel hamilton** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:16 am

wrenhunter wrote:Joel, any more info you'd care to share about Jolie's new record? I'm a big fan, would love to hear any news.

It is a really cool record. I am psyched about it.
I am also psyched that I gave one of the songs to my assistant to mix because I just couldnt do it for a variety of reasons.

Its a super cool record, and I am proud to be a part of the reason it is a progression for Jolie sonically, rather than just another "NPR" sounding record (in my opinion only) like some of her others.

wrenhunter · Post by **wrenhunter** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:33 pm

joel hamilton wrote:Its a super cool record, and I am proud to be a part of the reason it is a progression for Jolie sonically, rather than just another "NPR" sounding record (in my opinion only) like some of her others.

Hmm, I'll guess you mean her last one (which I did like, if only for "Mexican Blue"), since her first couple are gritty-good, imo.

In any case, I look forward to hearing it!

joel hamilton · Post by **joel hamilton** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:33 pm

wrenhunter wrote:
joel hamilton wrote:Its a super cool record, and I am proud to be a part of the reason it is a progression for Jolie sonically, rather than just another "NPR" sounding record (in my opinion only) like some of her others.
Hmm, I'll guess you mean her last one (which I did like, if only for "Mexican Blue"), since her first couple are gritty-good, imo.

In any case, I look forward to hearing it!

I like those records, but this is a progression, and I think people (critics) will pick up on that immediately. The new one is a really fun record, and I pushed hard for some sonics that framed the songs she delivered for this one.
M. Ward and Shahzad ismaily, along with Jolie herself, were the producers on this one.

channelcat · Post by **channelcat** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:13 am

minorleagues wrote:Unfortunatly the project fell through and I'm recording a 3 piece power pop band for the project, which is more up my alley.

Looking back, this was a silly request. I just need to find a way to become familiar with the room and the sound of the equipment. I'm going to try and see if I can sit in on some other people's sessions because I don't start tracking for another month.

Thanks Joel, hope you adventure was fun.

Hey ML, when I was there at MTSU, we were always seconding for each other. Also, track down the guys in the production class - they'll be looking for engineers and seconds for their projects too. I got a ton of experience that way.

I liked tracking drums in Studio B, w/ drums in the main room, rhythm guitar in the left iso, and bass in the right iso. 414s on OH through the M-1s, TLM170 as a room mic (or center OH) through the board, and either AT-4033 or TLM170 on bass cab. 414s on gtr amps - anyone still trying the Duane Allman 414 set-up?

Stu

honkyjonk · Post by **honkyjonk** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:41 am

Does anybody else hear something wierd with the way the vocals sound on 'Springtime Can Kill You?'

There is something hashy in the high end that sounds MP3ish to me. My first inclination was that I had a black market copy on my hands (heh) That the real thing couldn't have a vocal sound so hashy like this. But really, who's making black market copies of Jolie Holland?

The first place I usually notice mp3 bit compression is on female singers voice (or cymbals) but somebody like Jolie Holland or Joni Mitchell will really bring out the compression in MP3's and this is what it sounds like.

Can somebody else confirm this?

Kind of a bummer because the songs are just flat out awesome.

Escondida on the other hand is one of the best acoustic recordings (vocals or otherwise) I've ever heard imo.

joel hamilton · Post by **joel hamilton** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:40 am

honkyjonk wrote:Does anybody else hear something wierd with the way the vocals sound on 'Springtime Can Kill You?'

There is something hashy in the high end that sounds MP3ish to me. My first inclination was that I had a black market copy on my hands (heh) That the real thing couldn't have a vocal sound so hashy like this. But really, who's making black market copies of Jolie Holland?

The first place I usually notice mp3 bit compression is on female singers voice (or cymbals) but somebody like Jolie Holland or Joni Mitchell will really bring out the compression in MP3's and this is what it sounds like.

Can somebody else confirm this?

Kind of a bummer because the songs are just flat out awesome.

Escondida on the other hand is one of the best acoustic recordings (vocals or otherwise) I've ever heard imo.

Wow, that is weird... I would have to go listen to "springtime" to really tell you, but it never struck me that way.
The people that engineered springtime are very talented engineers, but that is not the only factor at play when making a record with human beings... 'nuff said there.
I am excited for anyone who likes Jolie's stuff to hear this new one. I became a real fan of hers while mixing this latest record, and i hope it works that way in the "real world."

honkyjonk · Post by **honkyjonk** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:35 am

Hmmm,

Yeah, I remember reading the liner notes and that dude who mastered it was Gavin Lurssen, who does amazing work for Tom Waits and others. I certainly don't doubt the talent involved or anything.

I wonder how possible it is that my copy has something screwy with it. Got it off of Amazon.

Oh well. I can't wait to hear the new one.

joel hamilton · Post by **joel hamilton** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:43 am

honkyjonk wrote:Hmmm,

Yeah, I remember reading the liner notes and that dude who mastered it was Gavin Lurssen, who does amazing work for Tom Waits and others. I certainly don't doubt the talent involved or anything.

I wonder how possible it is that my copy has something screwy with it. Got it off of Amazon.

Oh well. I can't wait to hear the new one.

Gavin did this new one also.

To put this on topic,

This latest record was mixed between Studio G and also at Strange Weather studio which is me and my assistant's studio. I mixed most of the songs on my Neve 5316 console (at G), and two of the songs on our new API1608 (at strangeweather).
One of the songs was mixed by my assistant , as outlined above, and that was also on the API.

One of the biggest things about this latest record is that I had so many disparate rooms/responses/ overall tonalities to deal with during the mix, so having a really, really goodverb to "unify" all the rooms was crucial, and the Bricasti M7 did that for me.
I used the Bricasti as the "room mics" on the drums for certain things, and always jst a little bit on all the acoustic elements, along with the same old tape echo/spring/lex224XL stuff I would normally do with a voice.
If you get this new record, you will be hearing the Bricasti all over the place.
It really helped me get as much 3D imaging happening almost to the point of surreal (in a good way) and not have to settle for a different overall room tone for each song.

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