Why does everybody hate ADATs?

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RefD
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Post by RefD » Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:18 am

dwlb wrote:
RefD wrote: kinda makes a person miss punch cards! :)

Oh, d00d, don't get me started on them hanging chads!
i prefer the more refined (and pretentious) term of "selvage". :D

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Of hunger and thirst.
Next day he was buried,
Face down, 9-edge first."
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calaverasgrandes
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Post by calaverasgrandes » Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:42 pm

I think the comment about worst of both worlds hit the nail on the head. You have the hardness of digital married to the time consuming linear workflow of analog (be kind...rewind).

I do remember that funny transition period from MDMs to DAWs. Folks running Cubase or Logic or PT simultaneosly running a stack of Adats as a backup in case the DAW ..... goes beserk and rebels against its human master, taking over the entire studio.
??????? wrote: "everything sounds best right before it blows up."

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Brett Siler
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Post by Brett Siler » Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:56 pm

When I first got into recording I bought two ADATS off ebay. The first one didn't work so I sent back to the person I bought it from and got my money back. The next one I recording one song on it at a band practice and on the first play back it played about 30 seconds of it and started eating the tape. I was so pissed I ejected the tape and threw it across the room, ha. Thats when I decided I was gonna get a DAW.

At one point my a band of mine recorded a song on ADATs a community college and it did sound good....

japmn
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Post by japmn » Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:04 am

The only thing about Adats that makes since at all is that you can buy them for almost nothing due to their total lack of value. linear Digital recording and the reliability of VHS... Yeah... sign me up.

And while I'm ranting, DAT = worthless also.

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Post by Jettison » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:04 pm

Obviously back-ups will be made.
Unfortunately all I could afford in a DAW is a 003.
It's cool and all, but when you start stacking up tracks on that thing it starts to lose sound quality. ADATs don't. All the depth of what you recorded goes down the toilet. And yes, I am going 16 ch out to my Toft 3200 with an Antelope OCX clock. Sorry, don't have Apogee, or Lynx, or SSL converters. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but a 003 sounds worse than ADATs always. And as far as time spent - jerking off with a mouse in my hand, squinting at a screen ,managing files, and crashing HDs (I've got 4 back-up HDs and I'll probably need to worry less about crashing ADATs than crashing DAWs, and when one does, I'll just plug in the reserve ADAT and the back-up tape and move along), and everything else DAW- I'd rather record, make back-ups, and mix as I go. The 003 will be used for live recording. You only get 8 live tracks (sans converters) with that anyway. And as far as linearity, hhhhmmm linearity, you don't ever hear people complaining about linearity with 24 track Studers do you. it's nice to be able to jump around and all, but I won't miss that f'ing curser a bit. We'll just have to be happy getting good takes. Don't get me wrong, DAWs are awesome and I'm not poo-pooing them in deference for the forgotten world of ADATs, but 32 tracks of ADAT still sounds way better than 16 tracks of 003 in or out of the box. And "harsh digital sound." Come on. Soooo many perfectly acceptable, even great, shit awesome records were made with ADATs back in the 90's. Fuck it!!! I'm glad everybody hates 'em. They're inexpensive, and the sound of my recordings just took a huge leap forward.
Until I get an 827 and RADAR these will do way better than the unsatisfying reality of cheap DAWs.
You traded the Cadillac for a microphone?

Jettison
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Post by Jettison » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:20 pm

RefD wrote:*waits for Jettison to talk smack about the DA-88*
I'll not fight for ADATs one moment, then turn around and shit on DA-88s the next.
You traded the Cadillac for a microphone?

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casey campbell
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Post by casey campbell » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:32 pm

ive made quite a few great albums on the old black face adats back in the day. after a few years, the transports started going bad on them.... oh well, it wasnt fun while it lasted.

RefD
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Post by RefD » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:39 pm

Jettison wrote:
RefD wrote:*waits for Jettison to talk smack about the DA-88*
I'll not fight for ADATs one moment, then turn around and shit on DA-88s the next.
i would...if i had any love left for ADATs, that is.

that said, i wouldn't turn down a free or cheap XT20 for use as an extra set of converters.
Last edited by RefD on Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
?What need is there to weep over parts of life? The whole of it calls for tears.? -- Seneca

Jettison
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Post by Jettison » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:40 pm

Sorry. Three in a row.

Cost analysis:

DIGI 003 Rack......$1100 with DIGI 001 trade in
Rack Factory.....$1500
003 Factory.......$2200
DP software only...$500
Logic sftware......$500 no converters
Sonar sftware.......$500 " "
Cubase...............$800 " "
Nuendo...............$1,800 " "
PT HD new
24 i/o
no computer....$16,000 +-
w/ computer....$20,000 +-
used...............$7000-$10000 or so
RADAR Classic Plus...$12,000 - $14,000
Studer 827A 2x24.....$4000-$6500 used Vintage King

2 ADAT XTs a BRC and all the cable.......$360 used

I'm pretty sure my numbers are on the level.
You traded the Cadillac for a microphone?

RefD
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Post by RefD » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:43 pm

i'm glad cost isn't the primary criterion used by most of us when deciding what platform to choose.

but honestly, if someone called me up and asked me to engineer a project for them using ADATs to capture, i would take the job and do my best for them.

it's only a set of tools.
?What need is there to weep over parts of life? The whole of it calls for tears.? -- Seneca

Jettison
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Post by Jettison » Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:05 pm

My studio is for my bands and the occasional friends bands only. Not commercial in ant way. There is no budget at all, and I do not eat and house myself with this operation. Probably wouldn't get a single job if it were.
You traded the Cadillac for a microphone?

Jettison
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Post by Jettison » Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:20 pm

RefD wrote:i'm glad cost isn't the primary criterion used by most of us when deciding what platform to choose.
Cost probably is a factor for most people here in TapeOp world. Looking at all the different forum posts - cost is the major factor. For those for witch cost is not a factor or for those who have gone into debt, then they probably have more expensive, better sounding systems. I certainly hope all of those who replied to this thread have actually used ADATs before and can compare it to other better/worse formats. Rather than just reiterating what they've read in the magazine. At any rate, if someone wants to shit on ADATs here in this forum while they're trying to figure out whether to get an Mbox or an RME card and software, then they've just hopped on the marketing bandwagon and will be purchasing a sub par system. More power to 'em.
You traded the Cadillac for a microphone?

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Jeff White
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Post by Jeff White » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:00 pm

I've had ADATS eat tape in the middle of a session before. Not pretty. When I used them in the mid to late 1990s, that was the only problem that I ever had. Sound quality... Tough call. If you had Black Lion modify your 003 then maybe it would be a totally different animal. However, I am not in a position to scientifically compare and contrast systems. I'm just glad that you are happy and holy shit awesome if your setup is working great then that is great news.

I am also happy in Digital Performer / Black Lion Audio 828mk2 / Apogee Duet world. For bands, myself, film audio, etc. I would be not so happy if I was having any problems with my system.

In the end you can make music on any of this shit and that's the most important thing.

Jeff
I record, mix, and master in my home studio, Ch?teau Blanco, and in various spaces in the Philly area. http://jeffwhiteaudio.com/

Jettison
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Post by Jettison » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:06 pm

Whats with the Black Lion mods? Converter/clocking upgrade?
You traded the Cadillac for a microphone?

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farview
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Post by farview » Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:14 pm

I used both ADATs and DA-88's for the better part of the 90's. I really don't think either one sounded bad. I'm glad I'm 24 bit now, but if I had to go back to using DA-88's I would be perfectly happy with the sound.

DA-88s were much more reliable than ADATs. DA-88's broke down eventually, but not as often as ADATs.

In fact, a band I was touring with brought a rack of four DA-88s to record the tour. A band they were touring with brought a rack of six ADATs. The DA-88s were bullet proof, never had a problem. Only three ADATs survived the tour.

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