Why does everybody hate ADATs?

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Harry
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Post by Harry » Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:25 pm

I'll give some love to ADATs
I would take them over PT LE anyday

That being said....I was glad to move up to a HD24. Sounds a bit better(ADATs sound good enough IMO though) easier to work with. instant locate!
NEVER crashes(knocks wood)

But the real deal is the cost. Get an HD24 and it will pay for itself pretty quick. ADAT tape was about $10 last time I checked.
24 tracks= $30 for 60 minutes

for $30 you can get about 20 hours worth of hard drive.(give or take)

Build your system around the adats and if you move up to an HD24 it's an easy switch...you don't even need a new set of cables.

nevermind the haters..ADATs changed the world before DAWs did. They deserve a little respect

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Post by oldguitars » Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:32 pm

Jettison wrote:Sorry. Three in a row.

....

2 ADAT XTs a BRC and all the cable.......$360 used

I'm pretty sure my numbers are on the level.
Don't you need a console to use those adats? and what about outboard gear? You should also factor that into the cost of an adat based setup...

oh, and something good to mix down to...
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Post by RefD » Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:28 pm

Jettison wrote:
RefD wrote:i'm glad cost isn't the primary criterion used by most of us when deciding what platform to choose.
Cost probably is a factor for most people here in TapeOp world. Looking at all the different forum posts - cost is the major factor. For those for witch cost is not a factor or for those who have gone into debt, then they probably have more expensive, better sounding systems. I certainly hope all of those who replied to this thread have actually used ADATs before and can compare it to other better/worse formats. Rather than just reiterating what they've read in the magazine. At any rate, if someone wants to shit on ADATs here in this forum while they're trying to figure out whether to get an Mbox or an RME card and software, then they've just hopped on the marketing bandwagon and will be purchasing a sub par system. More power to 'em.
i disagree, i think most of the ppl here use the best sounding set-up they can afford.

i've used ADATs (black face and XT20), they sound just okay...my real gripe, as a previous poster mentioned, is with the transports and the whole linear+digital thing.

and i'm not trying to decide what to use, i settled on something i am still happy with long ago and it's far from being a piece of crap.

say, wasn't this thread a Monty Python sketch back around 1972?
?What need is there to weep over parts of life? The whole of it calls for tears.? -- Seneca

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Post by b3groover » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:55 pm

Jettison wrote:Sorry. Three in a row.

Cost analysis:

DIGI 003 Rack......$1100 with DIGI 001 trade in
Rack Factory.....$1500
003 Factory.......$2200
DP software only...$500
Logic sftware......$500 no converters
Sonar sftware.......$500 " "
Cubase...............$800 " "
Nuendo...............$1,800 " "
PT HD new
24 i/o
no computer....$16,000 +-
w/ computer....$20,000 +-
used...............$7000-$10000 or so
RADAR Classic Plus...$12,000 - $14,000
Studer 827A 2x24.....$4000-$6500 used Vintage King

2 ADAT XTs a BRC and all the cable.......$360 used

I'm pretty sure my numbers are on the level.
As someone has already mentioned, you need at least a decent mixer and other outboard gear to mixdown a project on ADAT not to mention all the cabling and the cost of tape. Oh, and you need 16 preamps on that mixer as well for tracking to the ADATs. That should be factored into the cost.

Also, why are you so stuck on PT?


Reaper: Free
2 Presonus Firepods for 16 analog inputs via firewire: $500 on the used market
Decent desktop computer to run everything: $500

So, $1000 for a complete 16 track, non-linear, 24bit / 44.1 or 48kHz digital audio recording system.
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Post by rwc » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:15 pm

You are severely confused if you think it actually costs that much for a PTHD system.
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Aquaman
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Post by Aquaman » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:55 pm

Used ADATs (and DA-88/38s) all through the 90s. Perfectly usable platform. Only had one tape eaten. Oh, and two error failures. Oh, and an $800 repair bill on two occasions. Still, not a bad little machine.

However:

Live recording? Sure, whatever.

Editing? Comping? Creating in the studio? Not even close. Nword please.

Depends on what you do. For me (sound design, experimental music, remixing, etc.) you literally could not pay me enough to "jettison" my DAW for an ADAT. Been there. Done that.

FWIW, insisting that ADATs rule over Protools is nowhere near as cool and edgy as you seem to think it is.

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Post by 0-it-hz » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:29 am

Yep. I'm glad you found something you like... you obviously have reasons for liking it.
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Jeff White
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Post by Jeff White » Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:08 am

Jettison wrote:Whats with the Black Lion mods? Converter/clocking upgrade?
http://www.blacklionaudio.com/

My 828mk2 has replaced analog paths, op-amps, and new mic preamps. It also has the older Black Lion clock internal mod. they no longer modify the internal clock because they offer their own MicroClock.

Jeff
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Post by Jettison » Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:58 am

rwc wrote:You are severely confused if you think it actually costs that much for a PTHD system.
OK. My friend, I'm sure you can give me a much better price quote on an HD system then. Don't brand me as "seriously confused" and then not back it up with numbers. What are we talkin' $3000-$2500? Less?? With converters (not ones that connect through firewire 400) ??? Anybody? Anybody? That would be worth it.
You traded the Cadillac for a microphone?

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Post by Jettison » Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:24 am

Aquaman wrote: Editing? Comping? Creating in the studio? Not even close. Nword please.

FWIW, insisting that ADATs rule over Protools is nowhere near as cool and edgy as you seem to think it is.
When did we start getting mean anyway? I never claimed to be a maveric or different or anything that the adjective "Edgy" describes. I never touted the aesthetic or sweet feel of ADATs at all. I'm merely saying that they sound better than LE.
So for what it's worth, all that editing, comping, and creating, is rotting your brain. The screen and cursor are a big nurolizer.
You traded the Cadillac for a microphone?

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Post by rwc » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:16 am

Jettison wrote:
rwc wrote:You are severely confused if you think it actually costs that much for a PTHD system.
OK. My friend, I'm sure you can give me a much better price quote on an HD system then. Don't brand me as "seriously confused" and then not back it up with numbers. What are we talkin' $3000-$2500? Less?? With converters (not ones that connect through firewire 400) ??? Anybody? Anybody? That would be worth it.
Two lynx auroras with the PT HD cards for 32 input and output, not 24, two would cost approximately 6.5K. Superior conversion to 192s.

A refurb quad core intel mac is like 1.5K.

And in spite of the "retail" $13.5K for a base HD system, you can negotiate that to less than half with many retailers, and second hand, two cards for something stupid like 4.5K.

4.5 + 1.5 + 6.5 = 13.5K, including comp, for a 32 i/o PTHD system. With GOOD converters!

Personally I'd rather get a euphonix system, 24 i/o with better converters and use it with reaper for less money.

As far as LE, LE sounds as good as you want it to sound. Do you want to use the stock 003, or do you want to use the ADAT in to get real converters?
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Post by Jettison » Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:07 am

Alright, that's better than the retail quotes I got. Whatever. Still orders of magnitude more expensive. That was my point. And as a matter of fact I do use the ADAt converters with the 003. And the 003 converters are probably better than the ADATs. But that's a moot point. The sound goes down the tubes within the program, not at the converters. And as far as getting an upgrade mod or the 003 unit, I don't see the point. The same thing happens with top of the line converters and clocks hooked up. The program kills the sound.
You traded the Cadillac for a microphone?

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Jeff White
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Post by Jeff White » Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:59 am

Jettison wrote:The sound goes down the tubes within the program, not at the converters... The program kills the sound.
How? Hasn't this been hashed out all over the internet BETWEEN programs, with tracks added into different programs and summed internally, only to completely cancel out when mixed down without plug-ins?

I know that in DP simply not recording as hot or reducing tracks' level in the mix stage before plug-ins / summing and being aware of which plug-ins can clip on input when hit too hot has totally opened up my mixes.

Again, not trying to start a fight or seem like I'm picking on you (because I am not at all). How hot are you tracking mixing individual tracks in PTLE??? Look up -18dBfs with the search function and read the 1,000,000 threads discussing this. If you know this already, then ignore this post.

I have friends who track in PTLE and their records sound fucking amazing. Seriously. I mean sound inspiring and have tons of space and 3D imaging and are just completely inspiring. And guess what? Brent Averill 312 and Sytek preamps into stock Digi002 converters. Same mastering guys that I use. Same mics that I use.

Jeff
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Post by rwc » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:55 am

Jettison wrote:Alright, that's better than the retail quotes I got. Whatever. Still orders of magnitude more expensive. That was my point. And as a matter of fact I do use the ADAt converters with the 003. And the 003 converters are probably better than the ADATs. But that's a moot point. The sound goes down the tubes within the program, not at the converters. And as far as getting an upgrade mod or the 003 unit, I don't see the point. The same thing happens with top of the line converters and clocks hooked up. The program kills the sound.
There's no way an ADAT 8 track thing into a mixer is going to be better than a lynx aurora 8 out of PTLE into a mixer.

The sound doesn't go down the tubes in the program. Even if you do believe in the internal summing bus sucking thing, or plugins being evil thing, if you keep the faders at 0 and put it out into the board you are using with the DAT machine, it won't be "down the tubes"

You don't have to mix ITB just because you have a DAW.

And why is pro tools the only DAW to be compared to a DAT machine? Reaper, logic, nuendo....
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Brett Siler
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Post by Brett Siler » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:15 pm

I am not really hating on your ior ADATS. If youwanna get ADATS then go for it. Just keep in mind that there will most likely be some repairing to do and that converters aren't then end all be all to your sound. Many many other factors.

In my experience with them, ADATS now would end up being a big pain in the ass and a waste of time. It's not just gonna be a quick $350 and you are good to go. You will probably need to repair it with will be more time and money, and then reliabilty down the road... I am just tired myself of dealing with shit like that, but if you keep that just in mind and are cool with, then have at it, get an ADAT and record some good music!

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