Why does everybody hate ADATs?

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JGriffin
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Post by JGriffin » Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:54 pm

b3groover wrote:
My guess (as someone already alluded to), if you honestly believe what you're saying, is that you need to read up on correctly setting the levels on a 24bit recording system. In the 16bit world, the ideal is to slam the signal as close to digital zero as possible. Do this in 24bit land and your mixes will sound like poop, pure and simple.

+1. Additionally, if you think that audio quality on PTLE decreases as track count increases...the reason PTLE has a track count limit (where other systems like Sony Vegas don't) is precisely to avoid that. In Vegas or Acid you can absolutely hear your quality go down as your track count goes up (up how far? depends on your CPU speed and RAM). On PTLE you might hear an increase of crap as you add up tracks...but that might just be a pile of poorly recorded tracks.

Not that I want to impugn anyone's recording skills, this is just a hypothetical.
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0-it-hz
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Post by 0-it-hz » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:07 pm

Can I get real numbers on this more tracks = Bad sound stuff???

I can see how stuffing a zillion tracks into 2 channels of mediocre DA could be worse than on track with all that headroom to itself... But in Nuendo at least, the mix engine sounds the same regardless when I'm going out on individual DAs for each track... As soon as I'm summing in the box to fit on my board than things change, but not always for the worse.

I would just like to hear some research or something other than green marker endorsement.
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Post by RefD » Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:03 am

dwlb wrote:this is just a hypothetical.
did you just...? :shock:
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Post by rwc » Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:16 am

0-it-hz wrote:I would just like to hear some research or something other than green marker endorsement.
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Post by RefD » Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:25 am

rwc wrote:
0-it-hz wrote:I would just like to hear some research or something other than green marker endorsement.
Bevel thy ADAT!
and then recap it.
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Post by dsw » Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:09 pm

I had a customer yesterday tell me this: " I'm looking to replace my grey faces ADAT with Blackface, because they sound so much better."

okey dokey



:shock:
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Post by joelpatterson » Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:56 pm

Sneer not. I did the usual upgrade when the time came, got me the 20 bit silverfaces... and ever after... I kept wondering what I thought.

I mean, I had to admit, this was 20 bit, not 16, it's clearer and crisper and sharper and detailed-ier...

But were they better?

I was still pondering that imponderable when I moved up to the HD24, but if you hypnotized me and kidnapped me and put me in a time machine back to Montauk Point and everything... and my life depended on telling you what I thought... yeah indeed, the blackfaces were "better," more organic and wholesome and stuff.
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Post by Aj » Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:49 pm

You have not heard the original blackface ADAT in all its glory until you pair it with the plast-o-phonic Alesis 1622 mixing board.

True grit, I tell you. From <cough> experience.


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Post by JGriffin » Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:54 pm

Aj wrote:You have not heard the original blackface ADAT in all its glory until you pair it with the plast-o-phonic Alesis 1622 mixing board.

True grit, I tell you. From <cough> experience.


Aj

I remember that board. People who slag off Mackie mixers have clearly never had to try getting anything good out of an Alesis 1622.
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Post by Aj » Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:58 pm

Exactly dwlb. When I upgraded from the 1622 to my (original! non-VLZ even!) Mackie 1604, it was a like a giant light went on in my ears.

"Oh! That's what an actual mic preamp sounds like!"

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Post by Brian » Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:36 pm

Aj wrote:Exactly dwlb. When I upgraded from the 1622 to my (original! non-VLZ even!) Mackie 1604, it was a like a giant light went on in my ears.

"Oh! That's what an actual mic preamp sounds like!"

Aj
Actually, it's not, but it's better than the other board that apparently LIED about it's normal specs.

Man, the specs they touted on that 1622! I passed, but, it was close. I accidentally heard one.
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0-it-hz
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Post by 0-it-hz » Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:19 pm

From now on let's call them hADATs (pronounced Hate-Dats)

:P
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Post by oldguitars » Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:25 pm

everyone knows that like fender, blackface adats sound WAY better than silverface!!! :D
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Post by dsw » Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:34 pm

I mean, I had to admit, this was 20 bit, not 16, it's clearer and crisper and sharper and detailed-ier...

But were they better?
Well to me, clearer and more detailed most assuredly IS better, yes.
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Post by emrr » Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:26 pm

joelpatterson wrote:Sneer not. I did the usual upgrade when the time came, got me the 20 bit silverfaces... and ever after... I kept wondering what I thought.

I mean, I had to admit, this was 20 bit, not 16, it's clearer and crisper and sharper and detailed-ier...

But were they better?

I was still pondering that imponderable when I moved up to the HD24, but if you hypnotized me and kidnapped me and put me in a time machine back to Montauk Point and everything... and my life depended on telling you what I thought... yeah indeed, the blackfaces were "better," more organic and wholesome and stuff.

Not many people had them (I did), but there was an aftermarket input/output board set for the blackface machines that made them sound much much better. In particular, the upgrade to XT20 was a step down in terms of the bottom end resolution and sense of impact/solidity. The resolution on decaying notes was clearly better with the XT20, but it was a definite trade-off.

I shot noise response charts of the XT20 inputs versus the HD24XR and MOTU 24I/O; the raw numbers on the XT20 are just slightly better, in that -102 dBFS versus -103 dBFS sort of way. The XT20 pushes its noise spectra more clearly into the 20 kHz+ range, while everything else distributes more broadly. I'm not saying it sounds better......
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