Is Anyone Using Two Mics For Kick Drum?

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MoreSpaceEcho
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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:13 am

@?,*???&? wrote:With the steep roll-off below 80 Hz on a dynamic mic, you pretty much avoided capturing any frequency below 80Hz.
you have such a good imagination, you just make shit up and type it.

so you are now claiming that an 80Hz roll off is inherent to all dynamic mics?

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Post by chris harris » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:16 am

what happens when you flip the polarity of one of the tracks AFTER you eq them?

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akg414
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Post by akg414 » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:16 am

subatomic pieces wrote:btw, you DID SAY that the "low end goes away" when you combine the two mics. Now you're backtracking on that?
Yes as stated by me saying "Correction..."
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Post by the finger genius » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:18 am

RoyMatthews wrote:
@?,*???&? wrote:Wow, another two mic on kick drum thread...

I use three.
Oh, it's on! I'm goin' to four mics now. Don't no one try to stop me!

Beat that. It'll sound one better
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Post by chris harris » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:21 am

subatomic pieces wrote:what happens when you flip the polarity of one of the tracks AFTER you eq them?

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akg414
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Post by akg414 » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:44 am

subatomic pieces wrote:what happens when you flip the polarity of one of the tracks AFTER you eq them?
Not sure. When I get back to my studio, I'll definitely check.
- Brad

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akg414
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Post by akg414 » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:56 am

With the below scenario, is this observation true?

Scenario
If two kick-tracks are recorded (out of phase). Only to later to be discovered by someone hired to mix said tracks. When played back, the mixer engages TRIM plug and flips the phase-switch. The tracks now sound pretty "ok"... (or better than they were)...

Observation
While tracking out of phase, the mics are canceling each other out - to some degree, thus limiting the amount of captured of low end.

So then, when you flip the switch, and try to boost the low end, it'll never really change it all that much because when it was tracked, the low end signal was reduced and very little made it to tape. So when boosting, not much happens?

Yes/No?
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Post by thecheat » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:00 am

bradjacob wrote:With the below scenario, is this observation true?

Scenario
If two kick-tracks are recorded (out of phase). Only to later to be discovered by someone hired to mix said tracks. When played back, the mixer engages TRIM plug and flips the phase-switch. The tracks now sound pretty "ok"... (or better than they were)...

Observation
While tracking out of phase, the mics are canceling each other out - to some degree, thus limiting the amount of captured of low end.

So then, when you flip the switch, and try to boost the low end, it'll never really change it all that much because when it was tracked, the low end signal was reduced and very little made it to tape. So when boosting, not much happens?

Yes/No?
Unless you're bussing to one track, no. Mabye theres a tuning/placement issue.
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Post by @?,*???&? » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:13 am

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:
@?,*???&? wrote:With the steep roll-off below 80 Hz on a dynamic mic, you pretty much avoided capturing any frequency below 80Hz.
you have such a good imagination, you just make shit up and type it.

so you are now claiming that an 80Hz roll off is inherent to all dynamic mics?
Yes, for nearly all dynamic that is the case.

Sorry, you're talking about a diaphragm that is 1000 heavier in a dynamic mic than a condensor mic. The frequency response charts show this as well. Haven't you ever picked one of those up?

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Post by @?,*???&? » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:15 am

bradjacob wrote:With the below scenario, is this observation true?

Scenario
If two kick-tracks are recorded (out of phase). Only to later to be discovered by someone hired to mix said tracks. When played back, the mixer engages TRIM plug and flips the phase-switch. The tracks now sound pretty "ok"... (or better than they were)...

Observation
While tracking out of phase, the mics are canceling each other out - to some degree, thus limiting the amount of captured of low end.

So then, when you flip the switch, and try to boost the low end, it'll never really change it all that much because when it was tracked, the low end signal was reduced and very little made it to tape. So when boosting, not much happens?

Yes/No?
Uh, digitally nudge one of the tracks against the other. Some increment less than 1ms. Try .03, .05, .07, .09, etc. until you find an area you like. A straight 180 degree flip may not be desirable, but something in-between might be. Still though, because of the type of mics you've used, you won't have much at 20 Hz to 80 Hz- at least not as much as you could. Also, nothing above 15KHz.

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akg414
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Post by akg414 » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:20 am

thecheat wrote:
bradjacob wrote:With the below scenario, is this observation true?

Scenario
If two kick-tracks are recorded (out of phase). Only to later to be discovered by someone hired to mix said tracks. When played back, the mixer engages TRIM plug and flips the phase-switch. The tracks now sound pretty "ok"... (or better than they were)...

Observation
While tracking out of phase, the mics are canceling each other out - to some degree, thus limiting the amount of captured of low end.

So then, when you flip the switch, and try to boost the low end, it'll never really change it all that much because when it was tracked, the low end signal was reduced and very little made it to tape. So when boosting, not much happens?

Yes/No?
Unless you're bussing to one track, no. Mabye theres a tuning/placement issue.
I am! That's when the EQ doesn't seem to help.
- Brad

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Post by mjau » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:54 am

I get plenty of sub-80hZ low end with a single e602 barely inside the resonant head hole. Sometimes I'll couple that mic with something out in front of the kick, but that's more for a kick-heavy mono front-of-kick mic.

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:57 am

@?,*???&? wrote:Yes, for nearly all dynamic that is the case.
you gotta stop smoking that cheap shit.

what about all those dynamic mics specifically designed for kick drum? like the D112, the audix d6, sennheiser e602? presumably the designers would want to include some sub 80Hz frequencies in their mics responses, no? how many people have used any of these mics on kick drum on innumerable records with perfectly acceptable results? c'mon.

here's the D112's response. still flat at 50Hz. c'mon.

Image

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Corey Y
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Post by Corey Y » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:59 am

If I'm using two mics on kick I generally put one inside aimed at the beater and one in front to get the "oomph", as you say. Even though you can certainly EQ the hell out of them later to accentuate the qualities you want I find it useful to play with position while I'm checking for phase to see if I can fine tune what I want before hitting record.

These days I'm typically only using one mic on kick and happy with the result. every project has its own necessities though.

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Post by @?,*???&? » Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:06 pm

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:
@?,*???&? wrote:Yes, for nearly all dynamic that is the case.
you gotta stop smoking that cheap shit.

what about all those dynamic mics specifically designed for kick drum? like the D112, the audix d6, sennheiser e602? presumably the designers would want to include some sub 80Hz frequencies in their mics responses, no? how many people have used any of these mics on kick drum on innumerable records with perfectly acceptable results? c'mon.

here's the D112's response. still flat at 50Hz. c'mon.

Image
Looks like a roll-off to me. Every put a Pultec EQH-2 on a bass drum? 20Hz, 30Hz, 60Hz, all great frequencies to present that kind of low-end you can stand on.

Won't have anything to work with unless you're dealing with a condensor.

You proved my point quite well. Thanks!

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