Ribbon Mysteries

[theenvycorps]

I am becoming more and more intrigued by the wealth of ribbons that Asia is exporting. Being that there are close to 422 models available, I was wondering if any of you would care to shed some light here.

Ideally I want a pair to use as drum OH, ac guitar, etc. Not vox. Going for that motown sound. My budget is limited, so Chinese seems tasty, but I'd be willing to suffer with a single more expensive mic and add it's counterpart down the road.

1. What are the differences in models? Nady has 4 or 5 alone? Are these mostly cosmetic differences?

2. What models correspond to each other? Is a Fathead the same as a Shinybox is the same as an Apex 205?

3. Who's mods to do you like? Michael Joly seems to get alot of love.

4. Should I skip these altogether and go Oktava or Beyer? Or *shudder* shell out the big bucks for an RCA, Royer or Coles?

[virtualsamana]

Jon Ulrigg who I believe posts either here or on GS hand assembles, tunes, and QCs the Shinybox mics (it's his company). Support your local tape oper/slut!

Ofcourse everyone loves the Fatheads as well and they are probably the king of bang for the buck. If I were you I would get one of these before sinking money on something more expensive.

[joelpatterson]

If you're going to be very seriously religious and never take the ribbon mics out of the drum booth, you can do a "total strip" mod where you remove all of the blast protections. In the ol' Tape Op ribbons, this was the silk bag, the screening, and the waffle thingamabobber.

In the Fat's, I believe there's a thin fabric/screen doohickey glued over the ribbon motor, go ahead and rip it right off, so there's nothing between the actual ribbons and the actual air. You end up with mics that are dizzyingly sensitive to drums.

In this state, the ribbons will easily break, so keep a plastic bag over them at all times and don't move them very quickly when you relocate them.

Ummm... take the bag off when the drummer starts playing...

[Michael_Joly]

Here's my overview of the similarities and and differences between the basic Chinese ribbon types (of which there are only a few):

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/1557753-post137.html

[calaverasgrandes]

my 2 cents on nady.
Don't buy his stuff.
not because of his shady business practices as a "pay to play" nightclub ownwer, but because they are uniformly poor products.

ps. I dont think mr Joly's comparison is really fair. Not many of us are going to do all the mods he describes on our chinese ribbons.
Its kind of like comparing a peavey predator to a strat after you replace the neck and pickups.
OTOH, 4038's are prohibitively expensive. You could buy a half dozen apexs and have them modded by somebody. And still have enough left over to buy a very nice espresso machine before you'd be in 4038 price territory.

[rhythm ranch]

my 2 cents on nady.
Don't buy his stuff.
not because of his shady business practices as a "pay to play" nightclub ownwer, but because they are uniformly poor products.

Huh? Who are you talking about?

[@?,*???&?]

No to the RCAs. Too many sonic variations. No two mics sound alike. I would only buy one after trying many and finding the 'magic' mic.

Yes to the Coles 4038 or the Royer R121.

Coles is the 'classic' ribbon sound and is darker than the Royer in tone.

[calaverasgrandes]

my 2 cents on nady.
Don't buy his stuff.
not because of his shady business practices as a "pay to play" nightclub ownwer, but because they are uniformly poor products.

Huh? Who are you talking about?

John Nady.

[theenvycorps]

Here's my overview of the similarities and and differences between the basic Chinese ribbon types (of which there are only a few):

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/1557753-post137.html

Out of your offerings (mods or new) which would you recommend for my purposes?

[Michael_Joly]

I offered the GearSlutz link above because it answers the first and second questions in your original post - by describing the basic ribbon motor similarities and differences in Chinese ribbon mics. That should be the main take-away from that post.

Armed with the comparison I've provided ("short ribbon / wide magnet", "long ribbon / narrow magent" or "dual short ribbon" motor types and their frequency response characteristics) a person looking for a ribbon mic could make a more informed choice between models.

To your question directly above - If someone really has to have an Oktava ML-52 or ML-53 I will special-order one. The ML-52 was a great value when it was first introduced, but the price / quality point has really shifted to the Chinese designs over the past several years. For example, Cascade Microphones and I have colaborated on the Gomez Michael Joly edition ribbon mic (think of it as a FatHead with some tweaks and a multi-point quality control program I stipulated).

My fondness for the Apex 205 is based on it price and performance - this mic can be had for under $100, works well right out of the box (assuming the ribbon is tensioned properly) and is an improvement over the earlier, large body style mics (Nady RSM-2 etc) for reasons I've detailed elsewhere.
The Apex 205 responds well to modifications. So this provides a 205 owner with a "two-step" purchase / performance upgrade plan if they desire. Spend a hundred bucks, get your feet wet with a ribbon mic and then upgrade it if you like what it does and want to max it out.

I have a similar fondness for the $79 Nady RSM-4. Though this mic does benefit from an immediate change from the stock 6 micron to a 1.8 micron ribbon.

As far as ribbon mics go, I mainly provide a niche service for people who wish to minimize their upfront spend on the stock mic, but put more money into handcrafted modifications that bring out the best of these designs.

On the other hand, ShinyBox and Cascade offer ribbon mics with quality control built in during final assembly and test in their respective facilities. The FatHead is wildly popular because 1.) it is an excellent realization of the "short ribbon / wide magnet" style motor, 2.) it comes in several differenent package configurations and 3.) is available at an attractive price point. Similarly, the ShinyBox 46 ribbon mic is a fine example of the "long ribbon / narrow magnet" style motor and is a very handsome mic nicely packaged.

As always, my goal in these posts is to provide broad enough information that folks can make their own choice. Either the short or long ribbon mics style Chinese mics will make fine drum OH or acoustic guitar recordings. The very top end will be slightly attenuated in the former and more extended in the latter - whether stock or modified.

To modify or not is an issue separate from choosing a mic based on its basic motor type.

Hope this helps. best, M

[theenvycorps]

thanks a lot, Michael, for the well thought out post...

[calaverasgrandes]

yeah thanks for the posts
In re-reading my post it seemed I was being a bit penisy.
I want to be clear that I didnt intend to be penisy.
I'm just sayin' is all.
now back to Family Guy Star Wars.
shut up
TV

[getreel]

I like my Fat head too but it works best for drums or guitar cabs. I was hoping it would be great on vocals but I find it sounds a little strange. It works great for spoken word stuff. It gets that old time radio sound. It's one of my favorite mics for guitar amps. I'm gonna try a 205 next. thanks.

[Recycled_Brains]

Jon Ulrigg who I believe posts either here or on GS hand assembles, tunes, and QCs the Shinybox mics (it's his company). Support your local tape oper/slut!

+1

Great mics.