Excited about new space but need suggestions (new questions)

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

Moderators: drumsound, tomb

User avatar
Brett Siler
moves faders with mind
Posts: 2518
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 12:16 pm
Location: Evansville, IN
Contact:

Excited about new space but need suggestions (new questions)

Post by Brett Siler » Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:13 am

I just moved into a new house and the basement in it is awesome. It is a little over 1000 square feet, and very dry. About 3/4s of it is underground so there sound bothering people outside the house won't really be a problem (plus neighbors are prtty far away). The ceiling is the typical 8 ft tall with joists hanging down (these hang down 7 inches) and a concrete floor. It has a few separate rooms built in it which is very cool. My goal with the main tracking room is to keep it pretty "live" sounding. There is a separate room that I will turn into a control room. There is this weird room that I assume was a bathroom before hand. The reverb in that room lasts about 1 sec. but it has a confined sound to it, (thats the best way I could think to describe it). Then there is one other part that has the water heater in it that I am gonna convert into a bedroom and maybe storage.

I about the book Build It Like The Pros and have been reading a lot online and learning a lot. I would love to hear any suggestions on here of what you guys would do.

Here is some ideas for the live room :
:Keep the floor how it is
:Ultratouch Bass traps in the corners
:The sound from the upstairs is pretty loud downstairs so I need some sort of sound proofing. I was thinking of using some sort of gypsum board and sheetblok combo up in between the joist then some Ultratouch placed up there too.
:Replace the existing (small) windows with clear sheetblok

Sheetblok seems a little pricey so if there is a cheaper alternative I would love to know.

Here is a rough floor plan I made in photoshop:
Image

Here are some pics of what is gonna be the "live room":
This is from the stairs
Image

From the corner directly across from the bottom of the stairs..
Image

From the other corner facing toward the door...
Image

and from the "bedroom/storage"
Image

I would love to head suggestions on what you would do or what you think I should do. I'll post pictures of the other rooms as I get to asking more question about those specific rooms, but if you wanna see them here is a link to the photobucket page they are on:

http://s191.photobucket.com/albums/z166 ... 0Basement/
Last edited by Brett Siler on Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
JWL
deaf.
Posts: 1870
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:37 pm
Location: Maine
Contact:

Post by JWL » Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:55 pm

There are definitely cheaper options than sheetblock.

If you need to quieten things down in the ceiling, and you don't want to build double walls/2 leaf/room in room construction, then I'd do the following:

1. Insulate the area between the joists. Ultratouch is great for this. Regular fluffy fiberglass works well, too.

2. Install 2 layers of drywall, with Green Glue between the 2 layers, on an appropriate resilient channel or RISC-1 clip system. The drywall layers should be staggered, and if you can afford it use 1 tube of green glue between each 4x8 sheet pair (2 is even better).

3. Make it all airtight.

This is more or less directly from Rod's book that you have, start reading on p. 63 and he gives you drawings, etc.

Once it's built, you can treat the ceiling with a thin layer of absorption over key recording areas (ie, drums, etc). This will greatly help the OH mics, as well as vocals and acoustic guitar, etc.

Bass traps in the corners (including wall/ceiling corners) are also a great idea to flatten the overall response.

If you have the budget for it, diffusors on the walls can really help the room shine, keep its ambience, and sound bigger than the room actually is.

Good luck!

User avatar
Brett Siler
moves faders with mind
Posts: 2518
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 12:16 pm
Location: Evansville, IN
Contact:

Post by Brett Siler » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:47 pm

Thanks JWL!

I just got back from talking with the land lords and they are cool with me putting up drywall on the ceiling.

I have a few questions about what you suggested.

1. If I am putting drywall over the insulation will it matter to the sound of the room (as in making it sound better, tighter bass and whatnot not just more isolated) if I use Ultratouch or just some cheap fluffy fiberglass?

2. I have a bunch Auralex studio wedge foam stuff. Would that be ok to use on the ceiling for absorption or would you suggest using something like Ultratouch?

If diffusers will make my room sound a lot better then I can make room for them definitely.

Man, Rod's book is a bit overwhelming with all the info it has!

RefD
on a wing and a prayer
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:10 pm

Post by RefD » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:59 pm

that looks like a great and inspiring space with heaps of potential!

i gotta admit to being a teensy bit jealous. :)
?What need is there to weep over parts of life? The whole of it calls for tears.? -- Seneca

User avatar
JWL
deaf.
Posts: 1870
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:37 pm
Location: Maine
Contact:

Post by JWL » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:39 pm

The insulation might give you a bit of bass trapping, but not much. It's more to reduce sound going in and out of the studio.

The auralex foam is ok for high frequency absorption. I'd use it on the ceiling of the live room, provided you have adequate bass trapping in the room.

User avatar
Brett Siler
moves faders with mind
Posts: 2518
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 12:16 pm
Location: Evansville, IN
Contact:

Post by Brett Siler » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:01 am

RefD wrote:that looks like a great and inspiring space with heaps of potential!

i gotta admit to being a teensy bit jealous. :)
Yeah I am excited!

Off topic but I ended up buying a Midiverb II from you (and a few others)endorsing it so much on here. It just came in, I haven't even hooked it up yet to test it out yet.

User avatar
Brett Siler
moves faders with mind
Posts: 2518
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 12:16 pm
Location: Evansville, IN
Contact:

Post by Brett Siler » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:08 am

JWL wrote:The insulation might give you a bit of bass trapping, but not much. It's more to reduce sound going in and out of the studio.

The auralex foam is ok for high frequency absorption. I'd use it on the ceiling of the live room, provided you have adequate bass trapping in the room.
Ok cool. Is there any certin insulation you would recommend, since the Ultratouch under the sealed up drywall isn't gonna affect the sound of the room. I also figured since it will be sealed up that I won't be breathing in the fiberglass, if there is an inexpensive option.

I definitely plan on bass trapping like crazy. I am glad I can use all this foam for something...

User avatar
Brett Siler
moves faders with mind
Posts: 2518
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 12:16 pm
Location: Evansville, IN
Contact:

Post by Brett Siler » Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:56 pm

Any sugestions on how thick the ceiling insulation should be? I am about to order some Ultratouch for it and some come in sizes of 3.5, 5.5, or 8 inches.

User avatar
JWL
deaf.
Posts: 1870
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:37 pm
Location: Maine
Contact:

Post by JWL » Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:45 pm

How deep are your ceiling joists? The insulation should fill it if possible. R38? Maybe R30?

For Ultratouch I'd go the 8" if possible. If not, 5.5" will work well.

junomat
re-cappin' neve
Posts: 652
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 2:17 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD
Contact:

Post by junomat » Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:29 am

I cant recommend putting up RealTraps enough. Just buy a few and put them up in the corners. You'll notice a world of difference.

Sadly they are a pain in the arse to install, but they are well worth your time...

norton
buyin' a studio
Posts: 839
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 4:42 pm
Location: minneapolis

Post by norton » Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:06 am

Ceiling insulation... don't waste your money on gucci materials here. r-11 will work fine. In this application... ANYTHING in the fiberglass insulation ilk is good. Too much insulation in the cavity will actually cause you problems. Just get some batts from your local big-box home improvement store and get it up in the joist cavities. You'll be good to go.

As far as a "good" ceiling goes.... flex and flop are your friends. If you're going to go with a standard sheetrock ceiling I'd go with some sort of resilient channel mounting... you'll keep as much headroom as possible and get a lot better results with your low end transmission to the upstairs. Best bet is resilient channel, 5/8 rock green glue and another layer of sheetrock. And JWL's right as rain. air tight.

good luck.

great construction method resources out there at sae and greenglue.com and many others...

dig

User avatar
Brett Siler
moves faders with mind
Posts: 2518
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 12:16 pm
Location: Evansville, IN
Contact:

Post by Brett Siler » Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:20 am

JWL wrote:How deep are your ceiling joists? The insulation should fill it if possible. R38? Maybe R30?

For Ultratouch I'd go the 8" if possible. If not, 5.5" will work well.
they are 7" so I guess I'll get 5.5" since 8 would be too big. I think I'll probably get the 8" for bass traps though.

User avatar
Brett Siler
moves faders with mind
Posts: 2518
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 12:16 pm
Location: Evansville, IN
Contact:

Post by Brett Siler » Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:26 am

norton wrote:Ceiling insulation... don't waste your money on gucci materials here. r-11 will work fine. In this application... ANYTHING in the fiberglass insulation ilk is good. Too much insulation in the cavity will actually cause you problems. Just get some batts from your local big-box home improvement store and get it up in the joist cavities. You'll be good to go.
Well I was thinking of getting the Ultratouch because fiberglass can actually cut tiny holes in your lungs when breathing it in and cause cysts to form. Do you think I won't be breathing it in if it is in the ceiling?

User avatar
DrummerMan
george martin
Posts: 1436
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:18 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Post by DrummerMan » Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:50 am

If you wear a respirator while putting the fiberglass in, then you should be fine. Likewise, once it's installed, as long as the ceiling is sealed up well, there's no reason why it would slowly leak into your lungs over time.

That being said, I hate installing/removing fiberglass, as I was just reminded of a few days ago while pulling old stuff out of wall cavities (which'll soon be replaced by 705). I covered up really good while doing it but still felt like my skin had smoked a pack of menthol cigarettes by the time I was done... and not in a good way.


Also, and maybe somebody can back me up on this, I think ultratouch compresses some, possibly enough to make 8" fit in your 7" cavities with no problem. I don't know if this gets into the realm of actually transferring sound instead of stopping it though, but I thought I would just spread that rumor around some... :D
Geoff Mann
composer | drummer | Los Angeles, CA

User avatar
JWL
deaf.
Posts: 1870
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:37 pm
Location: Maine
Contact:

Post by JWL » Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:45 pm

Yeah, the ultratouch compresses really easily. I'm certain you could get the 8" batts in the space, especially if you are hanging drywall on resilient channels. Though I'm not sure the effect the compressing will have on the isolation. I'd probably stick with the 5.5" stuff for the ceiling, just to be safe.

Another thing you can do for more isolation is to cut sheets of drywall into 16" strips (or however wide your ceiling joists are), and install them at the top of each space between the joists, touching the floor board above, and holding them in place with small cleats. Rod talks about this in his book. If you can get 2 layers up there, even better, it'll stop more sound at lower frequencies.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 44 guests