"The Industry"

[christiannokes]

i am taking a business of music class at my local community college and i have a really great teacher who has been in the biz for like 30 years or something. he has told us about it from first hand experience and warns us to prepare if we are going to enter into that twisted world; Hollyweird as he puts it. his stories painted very real and very dismal pictures to me

basically I got really turned off. i love the art of music and recording that music. that is why i started learning about how to mix and have been playing guitar for 14 years.
i love the idea of not having to worry about getting fucked over and just concentrate on the music that the bands and i are recording.

i understand there is the business part of music that i must concern myself with if i want to make any living out of it. I wish it could be as simple as, "record the band's project, and they pay me when i give them the final product".

Is this what you guys do? is it that simple? if not, how is it more complicated? can i be making even a part time living off of recording without having to deal with the scum in the major label arena that is slowly dying off.

how are you guys doing? are any of you working for major labels or the kind of bummers that can come along with that? tell me some stories please

[Gentleman Jim]

christiannokes wrote:

Hollyweird

Huh... I don't know what that means.

Do you mean Weirdo-wood?

[RefD]

christiannokes wrote:

Hollyweird

Huh... I don't know what that means.

Do you mean Weirdo-wood?

*posts "giver" pic from old goatse.cx site*

[locosoundman]

i understand there is the business part of music that i must concern myself with if i want to make any living out of it. I wish it could be as simple as, "record the band's project, and they pay me when i give them the final product".

Is this what you guys do? is it that simple? if not, how is it more complicated? can i be making even a part time living off of recording without having to deal with the scum in the major label arena that is slowly dying off.

Sometimes it really is that simple. In fact, a great many of the gigs I do are still done on a handshake basis.

I don't often have to deal with labels, but the times that I have, I simply would not release anything until the bill was paid in full. People get mad and yell, but that's my policy. Once they realize you aren't bluffing, they will usually stop making noise and pay the bill.

That's pretty much how I do it with almost everyone. The few that I have not done it with are the ones who have burned me. However, I am happy to say that most people I have dealt with are honest and will live up to their agreements without any fuss.

[cgarges]

Establish competitive rate.

Get deposit.

Consider date booked.

Give client invoice showing deposit received and balance due at the end of the session.

Do session.

Get paid balance.

Hand over materials.

In the ultra-rare instances that terms are involved, I charge a hefty fee and an even heftier late fee, all spelled out in the initial invoice and terms only go to approved clients.

For me, it's that simple.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Jay Reynolds]

Establish competitive rate.

Get deposit.

Consider date booked.

Give client invoice showing deposit received and balance due at the end of the session.

Do session.

Get paid balance.

Hand over materials.

In the ultra-rare instances that terms are involved, I charge a hefty fee and an even heftier late fee, all spelled out in the initial invoice and terms only go to approved clients.

For me, it's that simple.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

This should be a sticky.

[cgarges]

First on the list:

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=27906

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[dynomike]

if he's such a great teacher, why isn't he encouraging his students rather than discouraging them?

[chris harris]

Yeah... don't get discouraged by some burnout.

Who is your teacher? If he's been in "the biz" for 30+ years and you haven't heard of him, then definitely don't get discouraged by his sour grapes.

incidentally, I don't trust codgers who say things like, "Hollyweird".

[DrummerMan]

Keep in mind that some people, especially those that might have been somewhere like LA for a long time, might be a little disconnected from the possibilities of a rapidly changing industry. Since I've lived here, I've had conversations with experienced music and movie industry people who've no clue as to how the actual independents create anything at all.

I mentioned to an agent I met that I had done some soundtrack for free to help build up my reputation and portfolio and his response was something like, "Oh, I know, one of my clients just did the exact same thing. I mean, it was, like, $20,000 or something! ridiculous, right?"

My point is, some people who you might respect can be a bit out of touch. Who knows, "Hollyweird" could be some holdover name from 1986 that your teacher still thinks is relevant. Well, him, and (I guess) Poison, anyway... and we know how relevant they are.

[rwc]

Why would you take advice from a failure?

There was this teacher at my school who showed me certain ways of doing things. When I got a real tech job they had to completely undo all the damage he'd done. He worked where I was working 11 years prior and we still_ found cases of his fucking stuff up!

Be careful who you listen to.

[dynomike]

Why would you take advice from a failure?

There was this teacher at my school who showed me certain ways of doing things. When I got a real tech job they had to completely undo all the damage he'd done. He worked where I was working 11 years prior and we still_ found cases of his fucking stuff up!

Be careful who you listen to.

just because someone is a teacher doesn't mean they are a failure. but i get what you mean.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

"record the band's project, and they pay me when i give them the final product".

Is this what you guys do?

that's what i do. if i'm tracking and mixing, they pay half at the end of tracking and the other half when the mixes are done. if i'm mixing they just pay when the mix is done. if i'm mastering, some people send a check along with their mixes, other people just pay via paypal or whatever when the masters are done. when there's labels involved i've occasionally had to give them a gentle nudge to get paid, but i've always gotten paid.

[rwc]

Why would you take advice from a failure?

There was this teacher at my school who showed me certain ways of doing things. When I got a real tech job they had to completely undo all the damage he'd done. He worked where I was working 11 years prior and we still_ found cases of his fucking stuff up!

Be careful who you listen to.

just because someone is a teacher doesn't mean they are a failure. but i get what you mean.

People who go on and on about how a specific industry they are involved in is miserable usually shoots off signs of being a failure.

Unless they work for AIG.



But seriously. Ever get the feeling reading some forums and talking to some people, that certain engineers would love the job if only there were no BANDS or MUSICIANS involved? Ever get the feeling some doctors would love their work if only there were no PATIENTS involved?

Ignore these people.

[christiannokes]

he's not a failure. he makes his living in the industry.

and he is not discouraging us. he is warning students who are starry eyed about signing a record contract at the first opportunity, despite what it says and what it means, that the business of music is exactly that; business. and the music industry is run by business men. you play by their rules. and if you don't, then you are at the mercy of a businessman. you are at the mercy of someone who's career is centered around finding ways to make money.

every morning he goes over what recently happened on a site called fmqb or something. he stresses the importance of keeping on the very latest news so you know what is going on and what the new job opportunities are taking form as. like, maybe i'll be a ring tone artist!?!--the kind that makes hundreds of hit 10 second songs for people to download for 40 cents onto their phones. now the industry is changing so much like every day cause of new technologies and buyouts and mergers and all that boring shit that matters to a some.
so it sounds to me like he is current.

basically he wants us to learn from his mistakes. he learned the hard way and made it through, continuing on to be successful in the business that literally told him repeatedly to fuck off in many different ways. i don't think that qualifies as being a failure.

he has a neutral position and a strong, effective teaching style. for me anyways.

he paints the ugly scenario that he experienced and uses it to explain why it is important to know what you are doing and make an educated decision to be apart of that life or not. If you know how the industry actually works, then you can manipulate it to work for you. if, on the other hand, you don't know how it works, it is dangerous enough for a teacher that cares enough to give you a bit of a wake up call to...um...wake up. might sound a little negative (ooh bad word) to some. but it makes sense to me.

My teacher stresses a human team consisting of professionals to insulate you. he also stresses networking because "it is all about who knows you". so i don't think he would be considered an isolationist codger or whatever.

is this not how the industry really can be? i've heard steve albini talk about it too and he is a well known name. i was just at AES and i heard geoff emerick and many other people on the panels talking about it. i immediately recognized what they were talking about. i felt like i was back in my biz of music class.

i want to know the truth. so if this still sounds like bs, then please give me some feedback. am i listening to the wrong person? if not then why does it ring true?

peace