Trying to get decent heavy guitar direct sound... gear help

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RefD
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Post by RefD » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:45 am

try processing the result thru Boogex with the appropriate speaker impulse (there's a link for downloading a few including Hiwatt and Mesa).
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theshaggyfreak
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Post by theshaggyfreak » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:00 am

I bought Line 6 gearbox not too long ago since it's now a close out item (Line 6 is coming out with something new). So far I've been able to dial in just about any tone I need with it but you really have to look beyond the presets that it comes with. It's a pretty good deal right now at $99.

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phait
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Post by phait » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:08 am

RefD wrote:try processing the result thru Boogex with the appropriate speaker impulse (there's a link for downloading a few including Hiwatt and Mesa).
I've been trying that for awhile and I really like it. In fact heres some new samples:

I did mic these with my AT2020, an inch away from the speaker. Volume wasn't very high, but enough to pickup.

This uses Guitar Rig 3 with a Dimebag preset, no other plugins.
1. http://www.supload.com/listen?s=PCK3GN1GBMLA

This second one uses CrunchDude + Boogex (in that order)
2. http://www.supload.com/listen?s=QS24AWC8Q2J7

Thanks for all the input.

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Brett Siler
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Post by Brett Siler » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:39 am

Some really good suggestions so far. I have to agree with everyone on here that you should at least throw ahumbucker in yr Strat or you'll be struggling to get the tone you are after. I know Yngwie uses a Strat but he doesn't really play chunky riffs like the artist examples you gave.

As for software, I have heard some pretty heavy stuff from Revalver. It's VST and AU compatible.

I have a Zoom G2 and you can get some good sounds with that if you do a little tweaking.

I also have heard people use amp simulators like a POD or V-amp but instead of using the speaker simulation the used an impulse response of a speaker, and that has sounded really good.

The direct out on the Vox Valvetonics amp sounds really good. I have done two recordings using just the direct out and it sounds great!

I know this is gear talk but a few people have touched on some techniques and I will too. Like someone said you may need to you a low pass filter and get rid of some highend fuzz on some. Also someone said to not uses as much distortion as you think you should. Here is the key I have found. Tone down the distortion a little (not too much you still want it to sound heavy) to where there is clearity there. Then layer that guitar track a few times, either just playing it over and over again (if you think you can keep the performance tight enough) or reamp it several times (or maybe in computer you could just copy and paste the performace, dunno never tried that). I like to mix and match amps and get a frankentone.

Use yr ears and have fun!

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Post by chris harris » Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:09 pm

wren wrote:don't feel like you need to get a huuuuge low-end out of your guitar tone. That's what the bass is for. If you have a massive low end, either you or the bass is going to completely disappear.
This is great advice.

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Post by RefD » Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:21 pm

subatomic pieces wrote:
wren wrote:don't feel like you need to get a huuuuge low-end out of your guitar tone. That's what the bass is for. If you have a massive low end, either you or the bass is going to completely disappear.
This is great advice.
excellent advice.
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NeglectedFred
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Post by NeglectedFred » Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:57 pm

Ibanez makes a pedal called the SM7 Smashbox, there's also one by Hughes and Kettner called the warp factor. Both you can find dirt cheap, and this is exactly the sound thet make.

Forget the Line 6 stuff, it blows.

I've gotten some of the meanest direct tones with either of those two pedals into a Rocktron Chameleon (just a good honest clean solid state pre) it also has a half decent cab emulator - but it's more of a harsh freq remover.

A metal zone might be a good second choice, but for the love of your ears, don't buy that crappy orange thing BOSS makes, the one that try's to impersonate nu metal, it sucks.

If you want to hear some of the tones I've captured with those stomp boxes into a chameleon let me know.

For heavy stuff I always do direct and mic, but the mic is usually turned up just enough to fill a void. That direct chain sounds tougher than my EMG's through a dual rec.
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phait
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Post by phait » Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:57 pm

Sorry for the latency, didn't notice this in my attempts until I auditioned the samples and didn't feel like re-recording as I'm experimenting.

Ok here I mic'd the Crate not high-volume, not high-gain (maybe about 6.5 - 7)

http://www.supload.com/listen?s=4DEN55EJLF20

Here's settings I initially used
Image

And here's the output file and panned w/ delay and some EQ
Image

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Post by Circuit Scream » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:30 pm

I'd like to second the recommendation on the POD - I use an XT Pro mostly now. You can hear what I've gotten for direct sounds at my MySpace page. You can re-amp with it too. I also use an Ensoniq DP/4 direct - listen at DukesNitemare.com for those sounds.

One thing I do is tend to print the fx rather than add them at mixdown. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

My best direct sound though has been through a Digitech GSP 21 Pro - awesome speaker simulator in the chain, IMHO.

I've got my POD XT patches up on the customtone.com site, just search "Silverwing" or "Thor" and you'll find them if you use a POD XT rack.
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Post by calaverasgrandes » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:36 pm

I'm not really into the bands you mentioned. i once got into an altercation with some guy from Coal Chamber because I toldhim his band sucked (I was drunk, they were playing at a Goth Club in SF).
But that all aside I got a few tips for heavy tones. I actually usually tune down a bit to B or C. Experiment with differnt guage strings. I actually like medium or light guage strings on low tuned instruments. It gives you less fundemental and more overtones. More of a rattling crazy sound. I didnt invent this, I stole the idea from Les Claypool.
I often will kill the tone knob on a guitar to send a "browner" signal to the amp. then I try and bring the treble back out with overdrive/fuzz. That way you get a nice bright distortion sound without shiny harshness. Of course you might be using an amp sim for this.
Sometimes I record parts totally clean, then screw around with amps sims. I generally hate amp sims. But its not good to get stuck too much in one way of doing things. besides recording clean gives you a lot of oportunities to listen to what you are actually playing and nt hide behind the fuzz! (I know it sounds hippy and patronizing but I discovered this when my old rehersal space got shut down and we practiced for a couple months on acoustics!)

Another thing I do a lot is set up the amp very bassy and loud and then cut the bottom off with a high pass filter. Either on the preamp or in the DAW itself. This gives a big saturated sound with the impression of bass. But you are really just hearing the intermodulation distortion artifacts.

In a weird way sometimes you actually want a very tiny guitar sound.
I try and create an audio image of a giant guitar stack...80 yards away outdoors. you really would only hear the midrange, air absorbs treble very fast, and bass disipates omnidritionally. It also helps to compress or limit the track. Some guys compress going into the amp. Then Limit the recorded signal!

Last, Cant you just wait until your housemates are gone and wail?
??????? wrote: "everything sounds best right before it blows up."

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phait
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Post by phait » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:12 am

Well per the post above I was able to mic and record without being too loud, in fact I'd say it wasn't a problem at all.

But I live with 5 people and theres very rarely a time all of them are gone.

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Post by vvv » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:37 am

For what it's worth, and I think I'll start a thread on this with some graffics showing it, when using digi-simulators like the POD, I find they have a fizz, often in the 9-10kHz area depending on the patch.

I find a low-pass filter especially helpful with simulators, and for rhythm guitars often set it around 5kHz or as low as 3.5khz, and pretty steep.

Let me again state that the Zoom GM-200, a US$50 cheapo analog plastic piece of doggie-poo, does a fair simulation of a lot of amps, including what it calls "blackface recto" or like that. I definitely have to high-pass it.
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Post by Wilkesin » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:57 pm

before you spend money on plugin amp simulators you should really try these free alternatives:

Aradaz Amps
Simulanalog Suite
Juicy 77 Hi gain amp
Stuido Devil free amp sim
Dirthead

If you have a good input signal (DI/preamp) you can get ridiculously good sounds! Google away.
Slider wrote:"we figured you'd want to use your drum samples and reamp through your amps anyway, so we didn't bother taking much time to get sounds".

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phait
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Post by phait » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:01 pm

I've got all those :) No DI, and whatever preamp is in a Tascam FireOne (can't be that great but hey it gets a clean signal)

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