Converting Gefell MV692 to 48V (from 12V t-power)

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Marik
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Post by Marik » Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:52 am

vanakaru wrote:
Marik wrote: Instead of D1/2 and C12 install a multiturn trimpot R8 and then adjust until you get 12V on C9/R6 junction (no capsule on). Or even better, 60V on VD2/VD3/Tr2 junction.

Be careful, you need to take off a bolt, which is very close to a hair thin wire of Tr2. It is very easy for the screwdriver to slip and break it.
If you need any additional help you can contact me privately.

Best, M
Do you install just the trimpot or you replace other different parts as well (like T2-3 and T4)?
Hi Vanakaru,

The T2-T3 (connected as diodes) and T4 are parts of DC-DC converter and there is no reason to replace them. I however have modifications for this microphone, including replacing input jFET for a low noise type, upgrading parts to high quality ones in signal path, as well as removal the in-house chip.

Best, M

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Post by vanakaru » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:37 am

Marik wrote:I however have modifications for this microphone, including replacing input jFET for a low noise type, upgrading parts to high quality ones in signal path, as well as removal the in-house chip.

Best, M
Do you mean that you can do this mod for my mic?
I am going to do it myself and I have been thinking the same line - replacing the outdated components. Could you tell me what FET I should look for?

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Post by percussion boy » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:56 pm

According to this post, c-tek in Canada did the kind of conversion you're discussing for a reasonable price. They are or were Gefell's distributor in North America. I haven't had it done but they worked on my um70s a couple years back and did a good job.

Unfortunately, c-tek doesn't list Gefell among its distributed brands any more. I'm not sure what's up with that. You could try touching base with them or Gefell and see, if other options don't pan out.

Apologies for this tenuous lead. Hope it's helpful somehow.
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Post by dynomike » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:36 pm

I had contacted Gefell about doing the mod, and they just said to send it to Germany, as any of their North American service places would just forward it to them. I guess that's how it is now...

I actually had Marik do the XLR conversion for my mics.. I haven't got them back yet, but I was happy to find a north american option on the board.

Gefell quoted 95 euros for each mic (as of november 2008) for xlr conversion including

-new amp housing

-new connector housing

-XLR connector

-48V circuit

-exchange of some old electronic devices

So, sounds like they do a fair bit of work, but still pretty pricey given the exchange rates now.

-mike
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Post by vanakaru » Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:02 am

dynomike wrote:
Gefell quoted 95 euros for each mic (as of november 2008) for xlr conversion including

-new amp housing

-new connector housing

-XLR connector

-48V circuit

-exchange of some old electronic devices

So, sounds like they do a fair bit of work, but still pretty pricey given the exchange rates now.

-mike
Do you have a contact for Gefell. I am in Europe, so this would be a good option for me since I have one MV692 non working and parts broken.
Actually I tried the installing 24k resistor mod and it works well, but comparing to original setup with n691 PSU it is way more noisy. With N691 the mics are clear of any hiss or hum.

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Milkmansound
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Post by Milkmansound » Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:22 pm

I just bought two sennheiser 12TP48 converters but they are backordered 4 weeks. They should show up by the end of the month at which point I will test them and post results.

It was $100 for two - a lot cheaper than a round trip to Germany and 200EU.

If my mics are still unhappy using these, I suppose I will have to bite the bullet and send them off. If the Euro keeps crashing, it might end up being more affordable than quoted in november.
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Post by Milkmansound » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:14 pm

my converters arrived today, and they work really well with my mics.

I was rebuilding my tuchel cables and wow are my connectors in rough shape! Pin 4 which delivers power on both are kind of dodgey - I had to kind of bend the internal pins back to shape with a little tiny metal pick.

Anyway - If anyone is interested in using the sennheiser part, this is your pinout:

XLR 1 to Tuchel 3
XLR 2 to Tuchel 4
XLR 3 to Tuchel 1 or 2 (this is your audio output, which is unbalanced)

I notice that the unbalanced output really picks up noise from AC. If I hold the mic anywhere near my computer or a fluorescent light it gets kinda noisy.

For $100 I got both mics working off phantom - however, if you've got the extra money and time I would suggest still going with the XLR phantom mod - it might be worth it to get a balanced output and quiet the mics down.

Does the XLR mod balance the output? I suppose thats a good question.
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Post by vanakaru » Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:36 am

I just got the info from Gefell.
The conversion cost for one mic is ?80 and there is a one time handling charge of ?60 regardless the amount of mics sent. Plus shipping and taxes.
About balanced out - "At the moment you can use the mic balanced or unbalanced if you have a power supply which is able to do this.
The N691 is unbalanced.
If we convert the MV692 you can use the mic balanced."

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Post by hrschlosser » Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:44 pm

I've converted several Gefell mics, also I built some external converters, so I want to make some comments to this discussion.

First, the MV 691 and 692 do NOT use T-Power. This is very important, because if you use the wrong adapter it may do harm to the mic. Both mics (as well as other Gefell types like PM 750 and PM 860) use Phantom Power, but with 12V, known as P12. In addition to that the mics can be used with a proprietary powering, where 12V is suplied via Pin4. In that case you can wire the outputs to unsymmetrical. If you use Phantom Power, the output can only be used unsymmetrical (which should be fine for all recording purposes).

Second, I'd never recommend using any types of resistors in the output cables, to get the Power down from P48 to P12. This is unreliable (what happens, if the power from the mixer (or preamp) is not precisely 48V but 52V? Right, the mic is getting too much power in this case. Also, as pointed out before, the mic output impedance is changed (for worse) in that case. This can cause problems depending on cable lenght and input impedance of the mic preamp.

If you want to use an external adaptor, you need decoupling caps, which do not let phantom power pass. You take P48 from the input, regulate it with a zener, a transistor, some resistors and caps down to P12 and pass it back to the cable after the decoupling caps. But here again you can see the limitation of most available converters. They are built into the smallest possible housings, leaving only space for electrolytic decoupling caps, which are not the first choice if you want the best possible sound. Due to the low mic impedance you need coupling caps of at least 22?F, assuming the mic preamp has "normal" input impedance to not get a bass roll-off. MKT caps are available in this size, but they are big and expensive.

Third, the only good solution is to convert the mics internally. Good means: inexpensive (less than 5$ for the parts), the sound goes unaltered. You'd need the same regulator design as mentioned above (for external adaptors), but without any decoupling caps. The Power (P48) is taken from the center tap of the transformer and regulated down to 12V. Here again, you need a zener, a transistor, two resistors and a cap. The problem is, the space inside of the mic only allows for a smd (at least partially smd) design.

Using a resistor to drop the voltage from 48 to 12 V is not reliable. You can never be sure that the preamp or mixer delivers 48V precisely. If it is more, the mic gets too much power. If it is less, the mic get's too little power. Both is undesirable. In the case of too little power the mic won't get hurt, but not work to specs. The output will be lower. Note, that the capsule also changes sound, when it doesn't get the right power. So, having the mic powered correctly is slightly critical for it's sound.

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Post by vanakaru » Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:40 am

I am including our discussion on gearslutz forum with excellent info from hrschlosser.
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end ... antom.html

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