Decent affordable acoustic guitar

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Decent affordable acoustic guitar

Post by otto-bot » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:14 am

I?m considering getting an acoustic guitar. Having played only electric guitar in the past and primarily using synths these days, I?ve no idea what to look for and what are considered good standards. My budget is <$500 and cheaper would even be better (meaning if there is little difference between a $250 guitar and a $500, I?ll take the $250).

Also thinking of getting a sennheiser 421 for vocals. Would it make for a decent acoustic guitar mic as well?

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Post by curtiswyant » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:20 am

I like the older yamahas. I got a good deal on one (<$150) because it had high action. A little sanding on the saddle and it plays great. In my experience, I've had little success with mid-range acoustic guitars ($500-1000). They don't seem that much better than a cheapy Yamaha or Seagull, but they're nowhere near a nice Martin or Gibson.

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Post by minorkeylee » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:36 am

If you can find an older Takamine (mid eighties-mid-nineties) it would serve you well. Alavarez also makes some great guitars in that range (used).

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Post by otto-bot » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:40 am

Anyone have thoughts in fender acoustics? Reading around I get the vibe that there isn't a huge amount of difference when it comes to budget acoustics. I'm just not ready to drop lots of $$$ on one yet as I'm not sure it has a place in what I'm doing, I just want to get one and mess around with an idea I have.

If there isn't a huge difference between say a $250 Yamaha, Epiphone, etc. and a Fender than I might go with a Fender cause I kinda dig the look of the strat style headstock of the sonora/kingsman. I think I recall a picture of Neil Young playing this type of Fender in the 70?s and always dug the look. Of course that is secondary to sound - if they sound like crap, I don?t want one.

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Post by joninc » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:48 am

i always thought fender acoustics were among the worst until this summer when i a friend did a folky album and brought his wifes fender acoustic along. it had some a warm woody tone - sort of dull when you listen to it in the room but recorded it sounded amazing. i would have bought it on the spot were it for sale. i wish i new what model it was - must have been more recent - like the last 6 years or so. i think the headstock was different than those old ones.
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Post by ballpein » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:06 am

Obviously, find one that sounds and feels right to you. There are a lot of guitars in that price range, I would suggest you be very wary and carefully inspect any given model.

I used to work at Larivee, for example, and while their high end stuff is quite good, the budget models are knocked out at a furious pace and the quality control just isn't what it should be. So, even on one production run of a given model, there are some well built guitars and some shit guitars.

In that price range, I would be shopping for a guitar that's built well but very simply, with minimal decoration. A $500 guitar should not have a cutaway or an ornate rosette or fancy fret markers or anything like that, if it does I'd be suspicious.

A few things to look at, once you've found something that sounds and feels right:

Grab a tuner and check intonation; each string should be in tune open and at the octave (12th fret) and in between. It probably won't be perfect, but should be very close. This should have been set at the factory, and if the salesperson can't fix the intonation with some minor adjustments, it probably can't be easily fixed.

Eye down the neck to check for any warps or twists. If you fret a string at the 1st and 12th or first and 20th fret you should see a slight curvature in the neck, and the string should have a tiny bit of clearance over the frets in between. The neck should feel very tight, and should withstand some pretty strong 'leveraging' against the body - it should flex but not wiggle when you do this, the neck and body should feel like one piece of wood. Check that the frets are smooth, well finished, and well seated in the fretboard. Corners get cut on fret-finishing. Pay attention to the nut (where the strings rest at the top of the fingerboard) - make sure the heights of all the strings are even, and that the strings fit snugly in their slots; look for any weirdness, looseness, or sloppy shimming where the nut is seated into the neck.

You probably won't get name brand hardware in that price range, but make sure the tuners feel right, they shouldn't be loose or sloppy, and if you tug on the strings they shouldn't wiggle.

Pay careful attention to the various joints: where neck meets body, where head meets neck (if its 2 piece), and of course on the body where sides are joined to top/back. In particular, there's a joint where the two sides join at the base of the guitar, where the bottom strap pin would be - a lot of mistakes can reveal themselves here. The heel of the neck should fit very snugly with the body of the guitar, you should not be able to detect any gap. All of these joints should be nice and tight, you shouldn't see gaps or spots along them. Mistakes will be filled with glue and sawdust, so if it's bad enough to see it means it's pretty bad. These may or may not be critical flaws to either sound or construction, but they speak to the level of care that went into building the guitar.

At the risk of pissing off the salesman, I would insist on pulling off the strings and checking out the bridge and the pins, as these are generally the last thing to be fit on the guitar and corners are often cut here. The pins should have a nice even fit, the holes should be nice and clean etc. A sloppy job here will make the pins buzz, rattle, pop out, etc.

If you look at any of these details on a more expensive, hand made guitar, you'll see the points of comparison.

I would personally stay away from the major brand names and look to a smaller company, where you're likely to see better QA and more hand-craftsmanship. As an example, there's a smallish Canadian company called Art & Lutherie who seem to be making some pretty decent guitars in that price range, even cheaper... very simple but well put together and playable.

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Post by Fakiekid » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:08 am

ive always had a soft spot for Garrison acoustics. We used to sell them in my shop and Chris the owner/inventor etc is a really nice man. there cheapest AG series used to sell like hot cakes!

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Post by otto-bot » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:16 am

ballpein wrote:Obviously, find one that sounds and feels right to you. There are a lot of guitars in that price range, I would suggest you be very wary and carefully inspect any given model.

I used to work at Larivee, for example, and while their high end stuff is quite good, the budget models are knocked out at a furious pace and the quality control just isn't what it should be. So, even on one production run of a given model, there are some well built guitars and some shit guitars.

In that price range, I would be shopping for a guitar that's built well but very simply, with minimal decoration. A $500 guitar should not have a cutaway or an ornate rosette or fancy fret markers or anything like that, if it does I'd be suspicious.

A few things to look at, once you've found something that sounds and feels right:

Grab a tuner and check intonation; each string should be in tune open and at the octave (12th fret) and in between. It probably won't be perfect, but should be very close. This should have been set at the factory, and if the salesperson can't fix the intonation with some minor adjustments, it probably can't be easily fixed.

Eye down the neck to check for any warps or twists. If you fret a string at the 1st and 12th or first and 20th fret you should see a slight curvature in the neck, and the string should have a tiny bit of clearance over the frets in between. The neck should feel very tight, and should withstand some pretty strong 'leveraging' against the body - it should flex but not wiggle when you do this, the neck and body should feel like one piece of wood. Check that the frets are smooth, well finished, and well seated in the fretboard. Corners get cut on fret-finishing. Pay attention to the nut (where the strings rest at the top of the fingerboard) - make sure the heights of all the strings are even, and that the strings fit snugly in their slots; look for any weirdness, looseness, or sloppy shimming where the nut is seated into the neck.

You probably won't get name brand hardware in that price range, but make sure the tuners feel right, they shouldn't be loose or sloppy, and if you tug on the strings they shouldn't wiggle.

Pay careful attention to the various joints: where neck meets body, where head meets neck (if its 2 piece), and of course on the body where sides are joined to top/back. In particular, there's a joint where the two sides join at the base of the guitar, where the bottom strap pin would be - a lot of mistakes can reveal themselves here. The heel of the neck should fit very snugly with the body of the guitar, you should not be able to detect any gap. All of these joints should be nice and tight, you shouldn't see gaps or spots along them. Mistakes will be filled with glue and sawdust, so if it's bad enough to see it means it's pretty bad. These may or may not be critical flaws to either sound or construction, but they speak to the level of care that went into building the guitar.

At the risk of pissing off the salesman, I would insist on pulling off the strings and checking out the bridge and the pins, as these are generally the last thing to be fit on the guitar and corners are often cut here. The pins should have a nice even fit, the holes should be nice and clean etc. A sloppy job here will make the pins buzz, rattle, pop out, etc.

If you look at any of these details on a more expensive, hand made guitar, you'll see the points of comparison.

I would personally stay away from the major brand names and look to a smaller company, where you're likely to see better QA and more hand-craftsmanship. As an example, there's a smallish Canadian company called Art & Lutherie who seem to be making some pretty decent guitars in that price range, even cheaper... very simple but well put together and playable.
Thanks for the extensive advice.

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Post by Jeff White » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:26 am

I've really liked most of the Epiphone MasterBuilts that I've played. Try to find one from 2004-2006. I used to work for Music123 and met with the guy at Epi that's in charge of this branch of the company. He has a real passion for quality, sound, and playability with these instruments. I played a bunch of them in 2004, 2005, and 2006 and even went down to Nashville in 2005 to meet with him and check out the entire line. There was no difference between the guitars/models that I played in his office in Nashville and the ones that I played off the shelf. You can find a variety of them used in your price range.

Also, the Martin 15 series, used... you may find one of them in your price range. D-15, 000-15, etc.

Martin 15s on eBay

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Post by ballpein » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:31 am

Be very wary of the low end Fenders (or any major manufacturers.) They're likely to be chinese made garbage of the ilk you'll find at Wal-Mart for Christmas.

I was shocked to see a Fender acoustic in for repairs at a friends shop a couple months back, and the top and back were made of veneer, not unlike the panelling your parents had in their basement in the early 70s. I don't care how good it sounds, that is just plain wrong. Veneers are for skateboards, not guitars.

+1 on used yammies.

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Post by kayagum » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:38 am

My favorite budget brands:

* Seagull, Art & Lutherie, Simon & Patrick (all Godin brands)
* Blueridge
* Yamaha (believe it or not, I like my FG3xx guitar from the early 80s better than pretty much anything under $1500, including Martin, Taylor, Breedlove and Gibson- obviously YMMV).

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Post by mattwhritenour » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:47 am

I have a cheap Yamaha I got for $180 at BJ's wholesale club prob about 5 years ago, which sounds great with DR strings (I currently have Ernie Ball Acoustic strings on cuz they were on sale and I'm not happy with them)

Every now and again I go into guitar center to browse around, and the one day I was testing out acoustics and thought this one $500 Yamaha sounded a lot better than the Martins and Taylors under about $1,200

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Post by Recycled_Brains » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:55 am

The lower end Fenders that I've tried blow.

Guild makes some decent sounding, affordable guitars. Also, I've heard some less expensive Washburns that sounded great. My girlfriend has a small body (like Martin 0015) Washburn that sounds really good. Kinda dull, but records well.

If I were in your shoes, I might try finding a used Martin 0015. I played one in San Francisco last year, and have wanted one since.
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Post by vvv » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:12 am

I have 5 cheap acoustic guitars (handy for party jams, etc.) from Washburn, Ibanez, Morris, etc.

The best is an Ibanez I have (new, $250 in the '80's) and it and the better Washburn (used, $250 last year) have one thing in common, besides Grovers: a solid top.

The laminate tops sound like cardboard, IMO.
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Post by DrummerMan » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:15 am

I love my Norman. Kind of quiet and weak live but records amazingly, usually ends up getting used over MUCH nicer Martins, Gibsons, fancy-ass acoustics, etc. that people bring in. I got it for $120 about 8 years ago.
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