What is a good upright piano for recording?
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Mystic Steamship Co.
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What is a good upright piano for recording?
The studio I am working at is looking for a piano, and we don't know what to get. Is there anything for about a $1000 that is particularly good for recording? I'm talking used of course. There are always a million used uprights for sale here in Nashville, but I really don't know what is good and what isn't. Is there any particular brand, model, or style of piano I should look for?
Boy, that's a tough one. It's all dependent on the age, condition, whether it's been regularly tuned, how worn the hammers and felts are, rust on the strings, etc.
Knabe is a very respectable brand and they made wonderful uprights back in the early part of the century. The older Grinnell Bros. (1920s to 1940s) have a beautiful low end. Can't go wrong with a Steinway, though I doubt you'd find an upright for that amount. Same deal with Yamahas; great pianos, but finding one for $1000 would be hard. Mason & Hamlins are nice.
Stay away from Kimballs, Wurlitzers, Chickerings (though some Chickerings are okay) and Gulbransons. Not worth it.
Try to befriend a local piano tuner / tech, specifically someone who specializes in uprights. They'll know. If my dad was alive, he'd know exactly what to look for, since that was his thing. We had some beautiful sounding old uprights through the house over the years.
Good luck!
Knabe is a very respectable brand and they made wonderful uprights back in the early part of the century. The older Grinnell Bros. (1920s to 1940s) have a beautiful low end. Can't go wrong with a Steinway, though I doubt you'd find an upright for that amount. Same deal with Yamahas; great pianos, but finding one for $1000 would be hard. Mason & Hamlins are nice.
Stay away from Kimballs, Wurlitzers, Chickerings (though some Chickerings are okay) and Gulbransons. Not worth it.
Try to befriend a local piano tuner / tech, specifically someone who specializes in uprights. They'll know. If my dad was alive, he'd know exactly what to look for, since that was his thing. We had some beautiful sounding old uprights through the house over the years.
Good luck!
www.organissimo.org
organissimo - Dedicated (new CD)
"This shitty room is making your next hit record, bitch!"
organissimo - Dedicated (new CD)
"This shitty room is making your next hit record, bitch!"
Oh, and before you buy ANYTHING have a trusted tech check it out first. The last thing you want is a lemon. Cracked soundboard, cracked pinblock, brass rail... it might look nice on the outside, but be careful.
If I was in Nashville, I'd help you out!
If I was in Nashville, I'd help you out!
www.organissimo.org
organissimo - Dedicated (new CD)
"This shitty room is making your next hit record, bitch!"
organissimo - Dedicated (new CD)
"This shitty room is making your next hit record, bitch!"
I just sold a Yamaha U1 I made good recordings on.. 
Real friends stab you in the front.
Oscar Wilde
Failed audio engineer & pro studio tech turned Component level motherboard repair store in New York
Oscar Wilde
Failed audio engineer & pro studio tech turned Component level motherboard repair store in New York
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timmymacdd
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From a true piano player,.,,,,,,,DON't ever ever ever pay for a used piano.......especially at 1000 dollars.........
I would call every person that had one for sale around 2500 and under and offer them the 1000 dollars and you move it.
really I just tell them I rock on piano and have no money which is mostly true, and as long as I move it nicely it is mine......then spend the money on tuning it twice. Pay the piano man a little to fix anything or get the hammers fixed and maybe re-whateverthey call it when they replace the felt and stuff....
I have never had to spend one penny on the actual piano. Most people inherit their pianos from either the house they buy,,,,,,or the kids never learned.....or their parents......SO MANY freaking reasons why they have one and never ever ever have touched it.....they are usually happy as hell to see it go somewhere it will get affection.
You can see why I got shot down for a job as a piano salesman recently......So I went in and told them to FUCK OFF.......
A piano is the funniest instrument becuase only 3 percent of people that have one can play and only 1 percent can play decent......hence they are free.
For a studio though....they all sound different......looks are even more important........so either get one that is cool looking or one that sounds good.
(EDIT: Ok I have been rethinking this......since you have so many choices of pianos......sound first always-but looks second and with a selection you should be able to have both....and for free or under 300 bucks)
FOr 1000 dollars though.....it is better to spend the money on upkeep and whatnot.
Spend some time looking and driving around testing them out.....There is no such thing as a perfect piano though.....you have to look at action, coolness factor-those ones that look cheap and crappy actually sound that way. the ones that look kick ass for a piano even when they sound bad the cool character of them makes them sound even better.
On my crappy songs link you will hear a bunch of songs that I recorded on the free piano I got four years ago......then I left it out in the rain on the side of the curb for a week of rain.....when I was all cracked out and lost my place......but I went back and got it and haven't stayed off the pipe long enough to save up enough dough to have it tuned.......but I recorded that through a 100 dollar shitty mic with a shitty cable and it is out of tune too......But damn greatest piano I have ever had. I also like those shitty old grand pianos......people are so impressed that you can figure a way to move it out of their house that they give it away for free or 400 bucks or whatever........
It is always good and american and just plain decent to offer some money though....and dave ramsey style take cash...CASh speaks...and it is worth 10 times as much as a check......
BUT SORRY I COULD GO ON FOR DAYS>>>>>>>>>
FACTS I KNOW:
1000 dollars will buy you up to a 10,000 new piano if buying it used. CRAIGSLIST AND EBAY YOUR AREA>......and surrounding parts......driving 100 miles to get a superb deal is worth it,
ACTION ACTION ACTION>..The greatest pianos are somewhere in the medium range of action.....very important to piano players......you want a semi-loose piano.....but not too loose.....
most players prefer some hammer action...or how to say it.....they prefer to have to press down a little hard-or whatever, I can't think of the term- we call it action. But in a studio setting where the client might not know the piano a medium action piano is GREAT. GO to your local piano store and check out the bolsendorfer pianos....check for spelling too...hehe.....but that is a perfect medium action piano. no one complains on those. YAMAHA pianos have really hard action which is annoying especially when playing blues or country style boogie woogie stuff.....STEINWAY also has great action especially if used.....it is a little bit too much brand new for average piano players. AND you don't want a really really loose piano because piano players that are good will be very very dissapointed.....If you can easily push down all of the keys it sucks my ass.....you expect a little action when you are playing because it is normal and helps out...so a loose piano makes things sound shitty and is no fun to play. It is also hard to get the muddy feel out when playing.....sorry again not explaining very well.
Again you also don't want that many chips in the keys or keys that are out of level. LOL that should go without saying. but there are free pianos in perfect condition......when selling a piano people know they are giving it away for far far less than it is worth......but demand is usually down on pianos and it is always a buyers market. I try to offer up something because even though I slant jewish I am republican....LOL
ANY piano can be tuned....so that is never a buying factor. but it is at least two tunings in the first month.......to get it up to studio quality tuning......I haven't tuned mine in the four years since I got it but I smoke crack so....
Looks are important too......it doesn't have to look that good but it will be in the pictures of your studio and people will judge you for that.
Being that it is nearly impossible to tell what any piano really sounds like if it looks cool I will come and check out the studio........There is that standard piano look that is so nasty....usually sits in a church upright or school upright and they are so plain and nasty that....well you get the point.
Of course there is the soundboard and all that I mean look through the piano especially if you are paying for it.....but honestly you can pick up three pianos in a day for free......with one truck and fix whichever one sounds the best........It is more time consuming but it will make your 1000 dollars work better.
ANyways soory for the long note.......lol...I need some more coffee..
I would call every person that had one for sale around 2500 and under and offer them the 1000 dollars and you move it.
really I just tell them I rock on piano and have no money which is mostly true, and as long as I move it nicely it is mine......then spend the money on tuning it twice. Pay the piano man a little to fix anything or get the hammers fixed and maybe re-whateverthey call it when they replace the felt and stuff....
I have never had to spend one penny on the actual piano. Most people inherit their pianos from either the house they buy,,,,,,or the kids never learned.....or their parents......SO MANY freaking reasons why they have one and never ever ever have touched it.....they are usually happy as hell to see it go somewhere it will get affection.
You can see why I got shot down for a job as a piano salesman recently......So I went in and told them to FUCK OFF.......
A piano is the funniest instrument becuase only 3 percent of people that have one can play and only 1 percent can play decent......hence they are free.
For a studio though....they all sound different......looks are even more important........so either get one that is cool looking or one that sounds good.
(EDIT: Ok I have been rethinking this......since you have so many choices of pianos......sound first always-but looks second and with a selection you should be able to have both....and for free or under 300 bucks)
FOr 1000 dollars though.....it is better to spend the money on upkeep and whatnot.
Spend some time looking and driving around testing them out.....There is no such thing as a perfect piano though.....you have to look at action, coolness factor-those ones that look cheap and crappy actually sound that way. the ones that look kick ass for a piano even when they sound bad the cool character of them makes them sound even better.
On my crappy songs link you will hear a bunch of songs that I recorded on the free piano I got four years ago......then I left it out in the rain on the side of the curb for a week of rain.....when I was all cracked out and lost my place......but I went back and got it and haven't stayed off the pipe long enough to save up enough dough to have it tuned.......but I recorded that through a 100 dollar shitty mic with a shitty cable and it is out of tune too......But damn greatest piano I have ever had. I also like those shitty old grand pianos......people are so impressed that you can figure a way to move it out of their house that they give it away for free or 400 bucks or whatever........
It is always good and american and just plain decent to offer some money though....and dave ramsey style take cash...CASh speaks...and it is worth 10 times as much as a check......
BUT SORRY I COULD GO ON FOR DAYS>>>>>>>>>
FACTS I KNOW:
1000 dollars will buy you up to a 10,000 new piano if buying it used. CRAIGSLIST AND EBAY YOUR AREA>......and surrounding parts......driving 100 miles to get a superb deal is worth it,
ACTION ACTION ACTION>..The greatest pianos are somewhere in the medium range of action.....very important to piano players......you want a semi-loose piano.....but not too loose.....
most players prefer some hammer action...or how to say it.....they prefer to have to press down a little hard-or whatever, I can't think of the term- we call it action. But in a studio setting where the client might not know the piano a medium action piano is GREAT. GO to your local piano store and check out the bolsendorfer pianos....check for spelling too...hehe.....but that is a perfect medium action piano. no one complains on those. YAMAHA pianos have really hard action which is annoying especially when playing blues or country style boogie woogie stuff.....STEINWAY also has great action especially if used.....it is a little bit too much brand new for average piano players. AND you don't want a really really loose piano because piano players that are good will be very very dissapointed.....If you can easily push down all of the keys it sucks my ass.....you expect a little action when you are playing because it is normal and helps out...so a loose piano makes things sound shitty and is no fun to play. It is also hard to get the muddy feel out when playing.....sorry again not explaining very well.
Again you also don't want that many chips in the keys or keys that are out of level. LOL that should go without saying. but there are free pianos in perfect condition......when selling a piano people know they are giving it away for far far less than it is worth......but demand is usually down on pianos and it is always a buyers market. I try to offer up something because even though I slant jewish I am republican....LOL
ANY piano can be tuned....so that is never a buying factor. but it is at least two tunings in the first month.......to get it up to studio quality tuning......I haven't tuned mine in the four years since I got it but I smoke crack so....
Looks are important too......it doesn't have to look that good but it will be in the pictures of your studio and people will judge you for that.
Being that it is nearly impossible to tell what any piano really sounds like if it looks cool I will come and check out the studio........There is that standard piano look that is so nasty....usually sits in a church upright or school upright and they are so plain and nasty that....well you get the point.
Of course there is the soundboard and all that I mean look through the piano especially if you are paying for it.....but honestly you can pick up three pianos in a day for free......with one truck and fix whichever one sounds the best........It is more time consuming but it will make your 1000 dollars work better.
ANyways soory for the long note.......lol...I need some more coffee..
Last edited by timmymacdd on Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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timmymacdd
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Agree!b3groover wrote: Stay away from Kimballs, Wurlitzers, Chickerings (though some Chickerings are okay) and Gulbransons. Not worth it.
Good luck!
There are like 100 kinds of pianos......or brands.....and I have a stark which is the best sounding and best action....built in CHicago in the 30's.....but good luck finding one in nashville.
And you could find a steinway for 1,000 but I personally hate steinway uprights.....
If they make a grand piano they usually make shitty uprights. But that is just my personal opinion. It always feels cheap and nasty to play on a steinway or yamaha upright when I am thinking of a grand.....LLOL....yamaha uprights are OK though since their grands sound and play like CRAP......IMO
Of course if I was in a studio playing on one I wouldn't mind that much. being in a studio actually trumps whatever piano you happen to get. Psychologically.
I used to work at the nashville symphony before I though I would become famous instead.......big mistake....LOL that was a great job that piano was tuned almost every day and I think one week it was tuned 4 times that I saw. That steinway wasn't even really that good but since it was tuned and kept up it sounded awsome and was a pleasure to play on. It also had the steinway action that was worn down from constant use that made it easy to play.....a litttle too loose but workable.
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chris harris
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Man... you actually give some good advice about searching for pianos (mixed in with some offensive stuff)...timmymacdd wrote:For a studio though....they all sound different......looks are even more important........so either get one that is cool looking or one that sounds good.
<snip>
the ones that look kick ass for a piano even when they sound bad the cool character of them makes them sound even better.
but, the two parts I quoted up there ^^ are ridiculous. Horrible advice. I've never seen a piano that looked so cool as to overcome a bad sound.
Also, I'm not sure if you're actually a crack addict (which would be a really, really sad thing for you to discuss so cavalierly with strangers on a messageboard), or if you're just used to making the joke. I'm tempted to believe that a middle-aged man with an obsession with teenaged pop music, might actually be a crack addict.
Whichever it is, man... do you need some help?
If you're really addicted to crack, I'm sure that you can find someplace to get some help.
And, if you're just stuck constantly repeating a bad joke from the last decade, I'm sure that someone can help you out there, too.
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timmymacdd
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Well I say the part about the looks because a piano bought for a 1000 dollars or used or free or whatnot.....will always be replaced by a sampled piano unless the artist just wants that real piano sound in which would come the actual piano.........and as far as studio coolness.....a cool piano in the corner that people can just sit down and mess with is better if it looks cool......
Of course everyone just assumes things in online forum groups and I am assuming that someone with a studio and 1000 dollars is not looking for the best piano in the world just something workable that sounds good....which every piano can sound good and fit with the right mic technique if it is tuned...and even sometimes when it is not tuned.......
I guess I am just inclined to believe that any piano can sound as good as any other piano if tuned and mic'd right. It is generally not the sound that the piano makes but the room and all of the umfff that goes into recording it.....And I can make a fat girl sound great.....but give me a thin one first....and I will make here a star....LOL Looks matter....and when a piano will mostly be a piece of furniture.......especially if you aren't willing to go out and spend a fortune on one then it might as well look good.
ANd As Far as crack........yes I love it....and there-in lies the problem.....LOL
Most guys like beer.....but I like a line and a beer.
Today it is especially on the brain since I have to report to probabtion and take a drug test.......So everything I write will probably contain a reference since I am pissed about having to go to probabtion evey two weeks for the last 5 years......but that is a whole other story......
THere is no other way to explain my situation and as to why I would tell someone to get a free piano and listen to mine without explaining why in the hell is my piano out of tune...........My free piano would be mint...had I tuned it and not left it out in the rain for a week......But I still think it sounds great as far as tone etc......even though it is pretty cheap mics that I used to record it.......
Of course everyone just assumes things in online forum groups and I am assuming that someone with a studio and 1000 dollars is not looking for the best piano in the world just something workable that sounds good....which every piano can sound good and fit with the right mic technique if it is tuned...and even sometimes when it is not tuned.......
I guess I am just inclined to believe that any piano can sound as good as any other piano if tuned and mic'd right. It is generally not the sound that the piano makes but the room and all of the umfff that goes into recording it.....And I can make a fat girl sound great.....but give me a thin one first....and I will make here a star....LOL Looks matter....and when a piano will mostly be a piece of furniture.......especially if you aren't willing to go out and spend a fortune on one then it might as well look good.
ANd As Far as crack........yes I love it....and there-in lies the problem.....LOL
Most guys like beer.....but I like a line and a beer.
Today it is especially on the brain since I have to report to probabtion and take a drug test.......So everything I write will probably contain a reference since I am pissed about having to go to probabtion evey two weeks for the last 5 years......but that is a whole other story......
THere is no other way to explain my situation and as to why I would tell someone to get a free piano and listen to mine without explaining why in the hell is my piano out of tune...........My free piano would be mint...had I tuned it and not left it out in the rain for a week......But I still think it sounds great as far as tone etc......even though it is pretty cheap mics that I used to record it.......
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timmymacdd
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ahhh...that's funny....I was looking at the pictures from your studio.....
I see you spend you money on the important things....like extra extra extra externals hd's and mics and real gear......but still have the same funky old monitors.....I like that...I do the same thing.
I keep thinking I should buy three nice monitors for looking cool when people come over...........but then again who cares....lol...and I just keep my old monitors.
I see you spend you money on the important things....like extra extra extra externals hd's and mics and real gear......but still have the same funky old monitors.....I like that...I do the same thing.
I keep thinking I should buy three nice monitors for looking cool when people come over...........but then again who cares....lol...and I just keep my old monitors.
We recently recorded at monkeyclaus outside of Charlottesville VA, and they had a really cool Yamaha that recorded very well. I think it was an M1A or variation. Built in 70's and 80's i believe.
http://www.usedpianocenter.com/currenti ... 5906bf.htm
http://www.usedpianocenter.com/currenti ... 5906bf.htm
richmond is a really cool town - supafuzz
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timmymacdd
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never heard of one......which could go either way. I never heard of the piano i have now....but I could afford it and it is the best piano out of five that I have ever owned. ANd I don't even remember the names of the other 4 since it wouldn't have mattered to me........usually even amoung brands there is the thing where every piano has so many differences that you take the good with the bad.
If we weren't talking in the 1000 dollar price range steinways and bolsendorpher blow out anything else...in sound and action of the keys.
Yamaha is the most popular and affordable one.....that is still considered good.
Kimball sucks ass....and I love my Stark....but each piano is different....and yamaha's actually have made probably the most pop record products since they are the most popular. however if you were in the classical world it would not be played.....unless of course they were endorsing the performance......hell actually in the classical world we use whatever the hell is available,....LOL
If we weren't talking in the 1000 dollar price range steinways and bolsendorpher blow out anything else...in sound and action of the keys.
Yamaha is the most popular and affordable one.....that is still considered good.
Kimball sucks ass....and I love my Stark....but each piano is different....and yamaha's actually have made probably the most pop record products since they are the most popular. however if you were in the classical world it would not be played.....unless of course they were endorsing the performance......hell actually in the classical world we use whatever the hell is available,....LOL
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mattwhritenour
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in the past 2 weeks i've seen 3 steinways for $500obo on craigslistb3groover wrote:Can't go wrong with a Steinway, though I doubt you'd find an upright for that amount.
are wurlitzers really that bad? I've been thinking about going to check this one out.
http://newjersey.craigslist.org/msg/924407534.html
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